Renata (01:09)
In this episode of the Job Hunting Podcast, I speak with Elizabeth Lotado, a consultant, author and educator specialized in leadership development and employee engagement. She has worked with companies such as Salesforce and Hilton, helping their teams create purpose-driven work environments. And for that reason, I thought she would be a great guest for the podcast, as so many of you have told me that working for organizations that have a strong purpose
is very high on your bucket list. But what if you can also make it happen? Yes, you! In our conversation, we discussed self-leadership, navigating workplace challenges, and shaping a career with more meaning and fulfillment.
In Elizabeth’s latest book, Leading Yourself, Finding More Joy, Meaning and Opportunities in the Job You Already Have, explores how professionals can take control of their work experience even in the face of imperfect leadership, workplace challenges and career uncertainty. And I think you know what I mean, there’s a lot of that going on at the moment.
So I hope that you enjoyed this conversation. I know I did. I really want to be in touch with Elizabeth and do more collaborations with her. And if you like this sort of content and you haven’t yet subscribed to this podcast, click that follow button, click that subscribe button. And you can even go a step ahead and sign up for my weekly newsletter where I share with you subscribers only insights into the conversations I have with my guests.
and other things that are happening in the job market that I share with you.
Thank you for following and enjoy this conversation with Elizabeth.
Renata (02:59)
I’m
fascinated by the sort of work that you do. And frankly, I don’t know what self leadership is. You will have to explain it to me. What’s self leadership? Yeah.
Elizabeth Lotardo (03:08)
Well, we’ll go through it together. And
I think you do know what it is. And after listening to some of your episodes, I think you’ve been doing it for quite some time, but maybe not putting the phrase on it.
Renata (03:15)
Yeah!
Okay, did you come up with a term or is it a research, an area of research I’m not familiar with?
Elizabeth Lotardo (03:30)
Um, I mean, Aristotle talked about like leading yourself. So it has been in the vernacular for quite some time. In 2017, I made a LinkedIn learning course called leading yourself, which was the first like corporate take on that. And since then the space has expanded and I felt the need to, you know, sort of claim my thing and put a book out about it.
Renata (03:51)
Good. I’ll tell you a quick story. have a good friend here in Melbourne. Her name is Cassandra Goodman and she wrote a book called Self-Fidelity. And I remember getting quite drunk with her at a wine bar and saying, please change the name of your book. Nobody will know what this is. And she came out with the book and it’s a really good book and it’s one of my favorite books and it’s called Self-Fidelity. And once I understood it and I read the book.
I fell in love with it and she has some very sort of loyal clients in the corporate world because of that book. yeah, there you go. Don’t follow my advice for book names.
Elizabeth Lotardo (04:27)
Fascinating. Well,
I’m such a word nerd. I’m like, self fidelity. That sounds fascinating. I would read that.
Renata (04:37)
Yeah,
yeah, I recommend it. But let’s talk about self leadership. Explain to us what it means.
Elizabeth Lotardo (04:45)
So self leadership in the simplest terms is an inward form of leadership instead of an outward form of leadership. We usually talk about leadership as what we’re doing to other people, how we want to inspire other people, how we want to set clear expectations for other people. When we flip that lens and we look inward at how can we inspire ourselves, how can we set clear expectations of ourselves,
that’s when we put ourselves in like the power position of our careers. It makes an emotional difference and it also makes a tangible difference in opportunities and results and things like that. But again, this essence of leadership is something that is talked a lot about in reference to other people. And I think the self leadership is innate to people like entrepreneurs, certainly innate to you after listening to some of your episodes.
But I think it’s growing in popularity in the corporate space.
Renata (05:43)
Yeah, there is that quote that I love. I think it’s from a social scientist called Mendo and I’m not entirely sure if it’s his, but he said, believe, leadership is not a pill you take, it’s a cough you catch. Have you heard this before? And I think it was his critique of MBAs at the time.
Elizabeth Lotardo (06:04)
I have, and-
And I think it, to me, that speaks to this evolving definition that we have of leadership and how much has changed, particularly in the last 10 years. mean, leadership used to be so authoritarian, very patriarchal, very command and control, and it has shifted to be a softer, more collaborative approach. And I’m not surprised that it has continued to shift into this element of introspection and self-leadership.
Renata (06:39)
So you mentioned there is some more traditional leadership styles that we are more familiar with. Do you believe that the future now with this interesting phase that we’re going through where some people are even describing it as a white collar recession and professionals finding it hard to find work in the corporate world? Do you think self leadership might be
something that you need to hone and strengthen so that you can find your path as a professional in the future.
Elizabeth Lotardo (07:17)
I certainly think so, there’s a few reasons why I think now is the moment. And the first is the volume of change that everyone is experiencing, individually, organizationally, globally. Thanks to technology and the economy, you mentioned this white collar recession. The volume of change makes waiting around for someone to tell you what to do a not viable choice.
whether you are employed and waiting for your boss to dole out your to-do list or whether you’re seeking a job. The onus now is to step up to the plate to identify what needs to be done, to raise your hand, to see the context, to understand what’s on the horizon. And I think organizations are increasingly valuing the ability to do that. And the people who…
cannot lead themselves, who cannot step into that moment and only wait for the direction of someone else, they’re being devalued by the organizations that they work for, the jobs that they’re trying to get.
Renata (08:21)
That’s a good point. Because you are in the US and we’re seeing a lot of as we speak and this podcast won’t take too long to reach the listeners. But as we speak, we see a lot of organizations in America requesting that employers go back to work in office. And a lot of people are trying to fight for their flexibility of hybrid work or remote work.
so they could use the argument that they have self leadership that they can achieve and achieve high performance working hybridly. Do you have any advice for the professionals that are really anxious about the situation of coming back into the office if they have the opportunity to find what do you think that they can say to their employers and work on as a professional development for them?
Elizabeth Lotardo (09:15)
That’s tough because if your organization is large and making this broad sweeping mandate that you all have to return to the office, raising your hand and saying, I don’t think I should because I know how to lead myself is probably not going to work out well for you. But what I think 2020 in the years following did show us
is that a lot of people have this innate ability to lead themselves. They don’t need a micromanager peering over their shoulder. They’re perfectly capable of driving results at home. And what I saw in the data before we pressed record, I was mentioning that I made a LinkedIn learning course in 2017 about leading yourself. And in 2020, that course took off. And it’s because so many people shifted to remote work where
Renata (10:02)
you
Elizabeth Lotardo (10:06)
It is up to you to prioritize more thoroughly, to get things done, to build relationships and keep people from ghosting your emails. So instead of saying, well, I shouldn’t have to come back to the office because I lead myself, I would point to the behaviors if you do want to make an argument.
that embody self-leadership. Like I’m able to build relationships virtually. I’m able to prioritize effectively. I’m able to set and meet these goals in a way that is benefiting the organization, the things that sit beneath the term. Because self-leadership is being newly defined in corporate America or corporate globally. And leading with that message might not always be well received, even if it’s intended.
Renata (10:56)
For those who struggle with everything that you just said in terms of having that self leadership already locked in, do you have a framework or practical steps that people can take to start creating that self leadership development for themselves?
Elizabeth Lotardo (11:17)
Self leadership is a practice that’s never done. So if you’re sitting here being like, I don’t think I did that, you know, me either, I’m not finished. I wrote the book on leading yourself. But a good place to start, if you want to develop this mindset of self leadership is to deeply understand the context of your role. Why does it exist? What impact does it have? What are the metrics of success?
What does senior leadership think is most important for your role? Because only when you fully understand the context, are you able to raise your hand and offer a new idea. Are you able to think more creatively? Are you able to prioritize effectively, right? You have to have the context to do all of those self leadership things. So if you’re feeling like, I want to step up to the plate. I want to own my role. The context is a good place to start.
Renata (12:11)
I think that’s such an important point and I’ve experienced it myself in my career that I thought I knew everything because it was written in a job description but the job descriptions get old really quickly and there’s also all the unwritten rules in the workplace that just float around and as a newbie you may not be aware of them, right?
Elizabeth Lotardo (12:39)
and it’s harder to pick up on remotely, but it’s not impossible. Yet, it’s an easy thing to not do because we’re all busy, your boss is telling you what to do, there’s intense deadlines in most roles. Yet, we know that this bedrock of context is so important for long-term success and emotional fulfillment. To see your role
in full context to understand why it matters to see a horizon where you can make a difference. That is a great feeling. No one wants to wake up and check boxes every single day for the rest of their life. The context matters.
Renata (13:12)
Do you get any pushback for self leadership from people that think, that, you know, I’m here and there have already too much to do. I think that that’s the responsibility of my boss. And, know, isn’t the employer, you know, the one that needs to think about my career development and provide me with.
all of the tools for me to succeed. what do you say to that? mean, is that an issue? Does it happen to you? okay.
Elizabeth Lotardo (13:44)
Yes, yes, there are the grouchy
among LinkedIn that believe they should take no responsibility for their career trajectory. But the sentiment of that is valid. And we know that high performing organizations do invest in their teams development. The best managers are dialed into managing their teams emotions and making sure they’re not being overloaded. The most competitive industries have best practices that involve highly investing in employees.
Having said that, the research also tells us it’s not gonna happen every time. We are all gonna have a variety of jobs over the course of our careers. We’re gonna work for a variety of bosses in a variety of economic times, and it’s not gonna be perfect every time. There are gonna be work situations that are kind of challenging. And if you don’t have the ability,
to champion your own development. If you don’t have the ability to motivate yourself, to set goals for yourself, to seek the context instead of waiting for it, you are the one that pays the price for that. So should your organization be doing it? Yeah, they should. But if they don’t, you’re the one that suffers.
Renata (14:50)
Mm.
Yeah, I think just for the listeners, I’m thinking of an example here that would that comes up time and time again. And it’s the fact that you might be doing something at work for years, like project management, but nobody at work ever asked you or told you to go and do a certification, a PMP course, right? And then you find yourself without a job and without that certification.
And you know that you can do it, but it’s harder to prove, especially in a very competitive job market where other people may have those keywords in their resumes and you don’t, and then you never get to go from job application to an interview. And because you haven’t recrystallized that experience in a documentary that you can show to people that don’t know you as well as your past employer.
So that self leadership would be the one that will say, okay, my employer doesn’t seem to care about me doing professional development. Maybe I should go and look it up and make sure that I take control of my career, future and success and crystallize that learning with a project management course. Is that?
Elizabeth Lotardo (16:20)
Perfect example of self leadership
and I want to debunk a little bit of the my employer doesn’t care about that. We assume wrongfully in a lot of cases that our boss doesn’t care that our organization isn’t prioritizing it. People are busy. Your boss is not waking up saying I want to make sure you know I deprioritize their professional development. I want to make sure they feel no support. Oftentimes if you bring that request to the table like hello.
Renata (16:27)
Mm.
Elizabeth Lotardo (16:49)
I have in the past 36 months managed this number of projects. I think I’ve done a great job. I can do even better. I’d like to invest in this certification.” A lot of bosses will say yes, and they’ll support you in that when they see you taking the initiative, but they’re not going to bring it up first.
Renata (17:07)
I 100 % agree. Every time I did a program and a course during my career, I was very lucky, you know, maybe, I don’t know, but never I heard a no. If it wasn’t a full pay, it was a half pay and it’s study leave, you know, all of these things. And it’s a matter of just bringing it up. You’re absolutely right.
Elizabeth Lotardo (17:27)
Yeah, there’s an expression
we have in the States like a closed mouth doesn’t get fed. I don’t know if that is globally translated or not. But if you’re not getting the professional development that you hope for, if you’re not getting the feedback that you hope for, if you’re not getting the advice, the opportunities, whatever it is, the first question you need to be asking is, did you ask?
Renata (17:51)
Yeah. How did you start getting interested in self leadership? Tell me a little bit about your personal relationship with self leadership.
Elizabeth Lotardo (18:01)
So I came to study self leadership because it was something that I realized I was terrible at. I was not one of those people who had this innate sense of agency. And when I first entered the workforce after college, I was wide eyed young person like work is gonna be so cool. I’m gonna have this great job at an office. And I was quickly disillusioned and found myself
really depressed and transactionalized a lot of the time. And I saw that experience play out with the vast majority of my friends too. This transition from excited person who was optimistic about the future to someone who was living for Friday happened frighteningly fast on a mass scale. But I noticed that it didn’t happen to everyone.
And I got really interested in, okay, I don’t think it’s that all of us picked bad jobs. I think it’s that these unique subset of people have this innate ability to, instead of waiting for the right job, the perfect boss, the great organizational opportunity, they create it. And something in them enables them to do that. And I don’t have it.
so I went back to school to study organizational psychology and employee engagement and how our mindset and our behaviors impact our results and how we feel about work. And that deepened my study. And ultimately, I guess, 10 years later, I figured out a few things and released the book, Leading Yourself, but it started not because I felt like it was something I was great at.
but because it was something I was terrible at and I was tired of feeling powerless and a victim of my circumstances.
Renata (19:56)
Yeah, I think that’s very interesting because I have worked in higher education and leading the pipeline of professionals from graduation into early career. And I did that for quite some time. And even though I did that, I have to admit that those amazing graduate roles that you get in consulting firms and in investment banks and all of the…
cool stuff that I was helping people get jobs at, they’re actually pretty boring. And I think what you have identified is that some people have their, maybe their long-term strategy more sort of set so that they know that that is a path to better jobs in the future, for example. But a lot of those jobs can be
very transactional, like you said, and not as creative and innovative. You’re usually at the bottom of the food chain in the work that you’re doing as part of a team. And the self leadership might support you sort of overcome that period that you know needs to happen for you to get to the next job and the job after that and have that sort of long-term thinking.
Elizabeth Lotardo (21:22)
I agree with the sentiment of that, but I do think there’s a distinction between like, I’m gonna white knuckle it out and just get through it versus I’m going to lean into this and even though it’s not perfect, I’m gonna make sure I build relationships that I’m proud of. I’m gonna find some way to make this meaningful for me. I’m going to use this as a springboard to get to my next play.
Renata (21:31)
Okay.
right?
Elizabeth Lotardo (21:46)
versus sitting there and thinking, you know, I have to be here for two years because that’s just what it takes in this industry. Both of those people would be there for two years, but the person committed to finding some good elements of it is gonna have a much better experience. And the data suggests get a better opportunity at the end of those two years.
Renata (22:05)
Yeah, that’s right. That’s absolutely right. I actually use that a lot in my coaching and we’ve mentioned here on the podcast before, but we have called it job crafting. Have you heard of that terminology?
Elizabeth Lotardo (22:19)
I have, I’m a big fan.
Renata (22:22)
okay. So it’s kind of in, is it the same thing or slightly different job crafting from self leadership? It’s part, not impossible. Yeah. Okay.
Elizabeth Lotardo (22:28)
Well, I think they’re closely connected. I
would say job crafting is a practice of someone who is a self leader.
Renata (22:40)
Got it, got it, yes. So for those listening and not wondering what it is, so job crafting would be you reshaping the job you currently have so that it’s meaningful to you and you can do that with the support of your manager. But most times when I’m working with clients and explaining to them how they can job craft is when they call me just before Christmas, which happens a lot, Elizabeth, and they’re ready to resign.
You know, like the consultations I have in December are usually quite emotional. They are people that are really burnt out, ready to resign, and they book a consultation with me and I’m like, no, look, you are going to replace one bad situation with another. You don’t want to get to January, which is the most depressing month of the year. You know, the third week of January is well known for being a really bad week.
that’s when you’re paying all your credit card bills from Christmas and you haven’t started any of the New Year’s resolution. Three weeks have gone by and the New Year’s resolutions haven’t been implemented yet. So you don’t want to get to January without a job. Let’s job craft the situation. Can you stay and do that sort of reshaping of the roles so that you can carve out some time as well to do the job search or, you know,
discuss some sort of mobility internally in your current role. So that’s what usually I do when I’m coaching.
Elizabeth Lotardo (24:18)
I think it’s a powerful practice and it speaks to this notion that even if your circumstances are not changing, you can change and you can make things different without a new job, without a new boss, without some massive economic turnaround, things can change for you and you have the power to do it.
Renata (24:20)
Yeah.
Hmm.
So in that sort of topic, if somebody is going through a tough time at work and having challenges at work, do you have good advice to give them on how to deal with difficult supervisors and difficult colleagues using that practice of self leadership?
Elizabeth Lotardo (25:02)
So if we go back to the basic practice of self leadership, is controlling the controllable, I’m going to look out for myself in this and apply that to difficult people, which is the biggest chapter of my book, ironically, dealing with difficult boxes and difficult people. The first step in all of that, knowing there’s a huge variety of difficulties people bring to work, is to recognize that we all control our emotional response. We cannot control this other person.
but we control how much time we spend complaining about them to our spouse. We control how much angst we carry into the meeting we’re about to have with them that we know is going to be awful and we’ve been thinking about for six hours before it even happens. So I wouldn’t say if you have a difficult person in your work experience, which we all do, whether it’s your boss or coworker or customer, put them to the side and think,
What’s within my control? I control my response. I control how much time this person is occupying, whether their mental space extends beyond the meeting. Maybe you control where the meeting is. Can you invite a colleague who makes you feel better about the situation? Can you schedule the meeting so it’s right before you leave for the day and you can close it on out? Shifting your mind away from all the reasons they’re awful and annoying towards
Renata (26:15)
Thank
Elizabeth Lotardo (26:29)
what can you do for yourself in the situation to make it less terrible for you? That’s where the power starts to change.
Renata (26:36)
Mm-hmm. You know, that is really important because so many people at the moment that are working with me are just waiting to hear about restructures, you know, all of the things that are happening in America, for example, and where things are going with the cuts in the budget and cancellations of projects and all of that. are like, I don’t think I will have a job. And I think that that sort of…
dealing those situations with difficult people or bosses that are unable to provide answers to questions that some of my clients and potential listeners may have as well, make it really harder to work day to day. What type of techniques would you recommend for people to maintain their level of energy and engagement?
in this sort of volatile environment that some of them are going through at the moment.
Elizabeth Lotardo (27:34)
So I’ll share with you two brain hacks that have really worked for me. And the first is to articulate the potential upside. There is no shortage of doom and gloom around us. There’s a lot of threats going around. And as humans, we are hardwired to pick up on threats. We’re not designed really to look for the bright spots of things. We want to identify what is an immediate risk to us and how do we avoid it.
Renata (27:38)
Okay.
Elizabeth Lotardo (28:03)
It’s just a primal drive. So you don’t need to prompt your brain to assess all the risks. But what you can do is prompt your brain to assess a potential upside. Doesn’t mean you’re ignoring the risk. You’re just giving a positive outcome a seat at the table. So what could a restructure mean for you? It could mean that your job is made redundant. It could mean that you have the jobs of three people now, but you still get paid your same salary. But what does a
potential upside. Let’s just entertain that thought. Maybe you increase your position in the organization. Maybe this gives you the push you need to polish that resume and get a great job after this one you wouldn’t have sought if it were not for a reorg. So there’s a tricky dance here between being like blindly optimistic and being pessimistic. But I think in this time, we are defaulting to looking at potential negative outcomes.
and giving the optimistic upside a chance to come to fruition is a valuable practice. The second mental hack that I use to sort of overcome this general fear and anxiety at work is some phraseology I learned from a woman named Tessa Romero who studies mindset and resilience. And her phrasing helped me so much. And it’s, this is my chance. When you are confronted,
with something with, just surprise the entire project that you’ve been working on. We have to redo the whole thing. Sorry, should have told you. Completely unfair. How do you use this as my chance? This is my chance to double back on clear expectations. This is my chance to reprioritize. This is my chance to prove I’m resilient. So again, we’re not taking this to toxic degree and putting up with like abusive garbage behavior from companies or bosses.
But the ability to find the opportunity inside of a situation that seems frustrating, negative, confusing, scary, that is a huge emotional lift to you. And even if the rest of it still sucks, holding on to that one bright spot does help.
Renata (30:17)
Yeah, no, that’s lovely. I really like those exercises. I’m going to be recommending this episode to a lot of people because I really like that. I’m going to do that myself. And following on with the individuals that say self-leaderships for me, I didn’t even know that it existed. I’m already doing it. I love it. I need to look for a new job. Is there a way during the recruitment process for
the professional to identify that level of autonomy and self-leadership potential that they may have in a future job with a prospective employer.
Elizabeth Lotardo (30:59)
I’m so glad you asked this question because nothing kills the spirit of someone who is this like self-starter, self-leader person than working for a micromanager who never lets you decide anything in the entire time you’re working for them. So you have to suss that out in the interview without blatantly asking, are you a micromanager who’s going to give me no autonomy? One of my favorite strategies to do that is to say, tell me about someone who you really enjoyed having on your team.
and why. And through that question, you will gauge, it was so and so because they always had new ideas. I knew I could count on them. Or, it was so and so because every 15 minutes they told me what was going on and they asked for my approval on everything. So trying to pick up on what level of self-startering empowerment autonomy is present in this organization.
Renata (31:48)
Mmm.
Elizabeth Lotardo (31:57)
How does my manager value that? That can save you so much heartache.
Renata (32:03)
That is an awesome question. I had never thought of that one and definitely a good one to understand the leadership style of your future boss. Awesome.
Elizabeth Lotardo (32:14)
And people go through lots of phases. And right now we’re in a particularly anxious time. So if people are a little micromanagey, I’d get them some grace. That includes the person you’re working for now, because everyone is under pressure. And people can change. But being able to suss out like someone who’s going to nitpick you every single second, that is crucial.
Renata (32:24)
Yeah.
Yeah, and talking about, you know, this time of our recording of this episode and all the changes that are happening, do you have any tips on how professionals can take care of their mental health and wellbeing and stay motivated when they’re sort of still not sure about what’s happening at work or they might be unemployed at the moment?
Elizabeth Lotardo (33:00)
have a couple tips. I’m also in need of tips. I think we all are experiencing disruption and chaos in our own spheres. To me, there’s this old like concept that it takes five compliments to outweigh an insult. Have you heard that? Where like if someone’s like, you’re ugly, you have to hear that you’re beautiful five times for you to move on. And that’s challenging, particularly in job seeking.
Renata (33:04)
you
Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth Lotardo (33:28)
because when you get a rejection, it’s generally not followed by five job offers. It compounds with more rejection. So you never get that emotional bounce back. You just keep getting beaten. And if you can’t find that emotional bounce back somewhere outside of your job search, that’s going to be really challenging. And when you are job searching, the importance of
Renata (33:34)
That’s such a good point. Yeah.
Elizabeth Lotardo (33:58)
going out with your friends, going out with your family, finding a hobby, volunteering, finding somewhere to get positive reinforcement for who you are and the value you provide and why you matter. That’s the fuel that’s gonna keep you going because it’s really hard and our brains aren’t made to take this level of rejection.
Renata (34:21)
You know, I love that research and I love those sort of ratios. I find it really interesting that for couples, women need more positive reinforcement from their husbands than the other way around. But I never thought of that for this part of my job that’s so important. I’m definitely gonna start telling my clients about it because you’re right. I think that the rejections can really spiral people down if they…
know, if they’re not careful and they’re maintaining their mental health and reminding themselves of how great they are as professionals and that rejection is part of the competition. I usually talk about it from more of a sports perspective, you know, people get into the US open to play tennis and only one will win and all of them are so great. But you’re right, I think the rejection still really hurts.
Elizabeth Lotardo (35:18)
Maybe I just
take things too personally. I like your bent on it of sports and it’s all just part of the game, but the reality is when interviewing is a really vulnerable process. You have to openly admit that you want something and that you really desire it. And whether you get it or not is in someone else’s hands. And that repeated exercise of vulnerability, especially if it’s not ending well, it can really tear you down quickly.
Renata (35:21)
No.
Yeah.
Elizabeth Lotardo (35:47)
So to build yourself back up and pull yourself back into, okay, I do matter. Here’s the value I bring. I’ve made a positive impact in all of these ways, even if they’re not at work. That energy carries through to your next interview. You don’t wanna get yourself in a negative spiral.
Renata (36:02)
Okay. Now, what about you and your self leadership practice? What are you doing in this second quarter of 2025 to be better at your work and implementing? How are you implementing self leadership on a personal level?
Elizabeth Lotardo (36:22)
On a personal level, I’ll talk holistically beyond my work. I write about self leadership at work, but everyone knows we are who we are, whether we’re in an office working remotely at the dinner table with our family. So for me, one of the most foundational elements of self leadership is prioritizing and being fully present into what you prioritize the most. And
Renata (36:25)
Okay.
Elizabeth Lotardo (36:49)
I unfortunately am fully present in scrolling TikTok too much. So for me, part of leading myself has been to ruthlessly prioritize some ambitious business goals and time with my family. And when I prioritize those things, there’s not a whole lot of room for TikTok. And that’s one example I think that the power of self leadership has is
When you let someone else define your priorities, you have to do, what your boss says, there’s some degree of posturing there. But when you put your time, your energy, your mental wellbeing in the hands of someone else, you open yourself up for a huge risk. But when you decide, I’m going to choose what’s most important to me within the bounds that I have freedom to do at work. I’m going to set goals that I care about and I know matter to my life.
I’m going to motivate myself instead of waiting for my boss to motivate me. That’s when things start to change. So whether that’s, you know, prioritizing your time, setting ambitious goals, it’s all of the above. But for me this year, time prioritization is the biggest focus of my self leadership.
Renata (37:58)
Do you find it’s easier to exert self-leadership earlier in the day and late at night? You’re like, no, I just use my TikTok or watch some Netflix and just waste a lot of time and sleep less than you should. I’m talking about myself here. I find that later in the day is when I usually get off the wagon.
Elizabeth Lotardo (38:06)
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
same. And just to be clear, I’m still using Netflix and TikTok, just not as much as I used to. It is more challenging later in the day. I heard you mention on one of your previous episodes that you don’t drink caffeine anymore. And I gave up caffeine too. Most of the time. I have a toddler, so some days are brutal and I need the crutch. But I’ve made more of a practice of sleeping more, not relying on caffeine.
Renata (38:30)
Yeah.
okay.
Elizabeth Lotardo (38:51)
working in more movement and I do think it helps. I mean, that’s advice we all know and it’s annoying to hear, but it did make a difference.
Renata (38:59)
Yeah, no, I was really surprised. I’ve been off caffeine for many, many months now. And I thought I would be less productive, but I’m actually more productive without caffeine, which to me is a surprise. I feel like I’m more intentional about the work that I do. And there’s less of a, I don’t know, like a weird energy inside me that caffeine, I think gave me that made me a little bit less.
mindful of my work and I’ve been all over the place so I thought that was really bizarre. Did you feel that as well?
Elizabeth Lotardo (39:33)
It is bizarre.
Kind of. I think the biggest difference to me was I don’t feel the afternoon crash. That’s the part of caffeine that was really struggling with me. And now when I do have caffeine, like if my kids up all night the night before and I know I need it, I need to be drinking it like all day to avoid the crash up until four or five p.m. because the crash was just so bad. I was hitting a wall every day at like two p.m. They are so tired.
Renata (39:44)
That’s true. Yeah.
Elizabeth Lotardo (40:03)
And lo and behold, when I cooled off on the coffee, things changed.
Renata (40:03)
you
Yes, yes. Now I use caffeine as part of my coaching as well to boost interview performance. So we have some techniques. mean, Australia is very good at doing research on caffeine. We do that for the Australian Defense Force and sports teams and all of them sort of because there’s so many, there are few medications and things that you can use as an athlete or as a
you know, some people in the military. So caffeine is one of those things that is widely researched for that. So we do use it for high performing in interview situations. But I don’t feel like I need that anymore. Unless I’m doing a speaking engagement, I may consider it. don’t know, but I’m pretty good. Yeah. And I don’t have toddlers, so that is also. Yeah.
Elizabeth Lotardo (40:51)
You
There’s a time and a place and it impacts everyone differently. I think it impacts men really differently.
Men are, I think, less susceptible to some of the hormonal imbalance drawbacks that caffeine can bring and so much of the research on performance is done on men. And back to this notion of self leadership, right?
Renata (41:10)
okay.
Yes.
Elizabeth Lotardo (41:17)
knowing yourself and what is good for you instead of following some LinkedIn guru like I wake up at 5 a.m. And I you know stare at the Sun for 45 minutes and then I cold plunge like We are all in a different season of life and we are all different people and it is up to you to dial it in for you No, the two of us are different than everyone listening, you know, no one can tell you but you and it’s a process of trial
Renata (41:30)
Yeah.
I think that’s very, very true. And what you said about research being done with men and not women, what I am seeing now is a lot of research now being done with women that’s so contradictory to the one that we were doing before. And you were talking about TikTok, but there’s this really funny lady who is sort of talking about all of this research.
that’s now for women and all of the things that we were doing are wrong. And the way that she talks about it as if she was a guest on the Dire of a CEO podcast is just so hilarious. If I find it, I’ll definitely send it to you. But I think that that all the self leadership part of this is, okay, I’m going to take some of these things on board, but I’m going to take what suits me, my style, my home.
Elizabeth Lotardo (42:16)
I didn’t see that.
Renata (42:35)
my phase in life. I’m not just going to take everything on board because that is overwhelming and unnecessary. I think people might sort of be persuaded sometimes to be very stoic about the way that they lead their lives, for example, and that is detrimental to their happiness and contentment with the way that life is going for them.
Elizabeth Lotardo (43:01)
I agree. And we
all deserve to have a work experience, a life that we find meaningful and joyful and one we see opportunities in. And we all have the power to give that gift to ourselves and waiting for someone else to hand it to you. You’re gonna be waiting a long time. You’re the common denominator in all of your workplace experiences. So your ability to lead yourself and do what’s right for you, that’s what determines the outcome.
Renata (43:30)
I love that. I’m so glad you came to the podcast. find that self leadership, it’s such an important ethos and information for people that are job seeking. Or if you’re not job seeking and listening to this, you know, if you’re taking control of your career in the future, I think that that concept, if you want to read more, go to the blog notes, there will be a link there to Elizabeth’s book.
there will be a link to her website and you mentioned that you’ve done LinkedIn programs as well that people can do? Yeah.
Elizabeth Lotardo (44:05)
Yep, I’m a Lincoln
Learning instructor. I have courses on leading yourself, leading without formal authority, finding purpose at work, all kinds of things to make the world a better place.
Renata (44:14)
There you go. if you have LinkedIn, is it with LinkedIn premium or can they do if they have LinkedIn for free? Good question.
Elizabeth Lotardo (44:20)
So if you have LinkedIn, you can get a
free trial for LinkedIn Learning. And I don’t sell LinkedIn Learning, so to make sure I’m saying this right, if you have LinkedIn Premium, you have LinkedIn Learning for free. And a lot of companies subscribe to LinkedIn Learning, and sometimes their employees don’t know. So it may be a perk of your job that you have access to these training courses on.
Renata (44:25)
There you go.
Yeah.
There you go. I’m going to find them and put the link in the episode notes for you as well. Elizabeth, thank you so much for coming on the pod.
Elizabeth Lotardo (44:49)
Thanks for having me.
