Michelle Redfern (02:20)
Welcome back listeners. Another week and I’m here talking again with friend of Lee Dassault and mine, Renata Bernardi. Welcome back Renata.
Renata Bernarde (02:34)
Hello.
Michelle Redfern (02:36)
And so, Renata, if you haven’t tuned into last week’s episode, we talked all about hiring managers. And well, we talked about you as a hiring manager. Is hiring a burden or a joy? And we broke down all of the reasons why it probably feels like a burden and also gave some solutions, three pillars of solutions about how to make it a joy. But this week, we’re flipping the script to
you as the job hunter, the job seeker. And right now, as we record, it is, well, it’s actually November, but by the time this episode goes live, it’ll be December, 2024. And I know in my network that there are plenty of you out there who are going, are currently, or will become job seekers right now. And it’s a tricky time of year. And in a recent, one of your recent newsletters,
the words heebie jeebies jumped out at me, Renata. my God, it’s December and I’m a job hunter. I’ve got the heebie jeebies or I’ve been in the job hunting market for a little while now. Holy hell, am I going to lose the next two or three months because of, know, certainly in Western countries, people go on holidays for Christmas and what have you. So.
Renata, what are we talking about here? What are the heebie-jeebies and importantly, what are we going to do about
Renata Bernarde (04:07)
Yes, I think that’s very personal to me because I have been without a job during this time of the year and I was so anxious about it and so worried and concerned. And when I started coaching Michelle, I started the job hunting podcast on Halloween. It was the 31st of October. And then I started doing courses and programs.
during the end of the year. So a lot of my online courses are designed for people that are without a job during this time of the year. The first time I ran research career, it was at that time. And even the group coaching, I launched it for the first time ⁓ late December to pick up on that anxiety. And I still to this day is the time of the year that I’m the busiest. So I’m very busy right now with people.
going through sometimes voluntary redundancy, sometimes the restructures and they are in outplacement with me and so forth. So I completely understand. I think it’s important as well to think about energy and this time of the year is so ironic because we look at the TV and we go out to see the window that I’m Europe. So there’s Christmas markets everywhere.
Everything is so joyous, but most people that I speak to have very low energy at this time of the year, very low energy. ⁓
Michelle Redfern (05:43)
For many of them, very high anxiety as well because I think there’s, I wanna be very, very real here. As you know, listeners, I’ve always been very real. If I’ve been out of work for some time and I’m still a job hunter or whether it’s recent, money, I’ve got to earn, right? And there’s this view that, okay, the job market goes on holidays.
So that means my opportunities for jobs go on holidays. And it is a time of year of consumerism, let’s face it. So I think that money kind of, know, holy hell, when am I going to earn? But also my self-esteem that goes with having a job. yeah, all of the things that we know. But is it fact or a myth that the job market goes on holidays in December,
Renata Bernarde (06:38)
It’s a fact. It’s a fact. You will still find jobs advertised, but it is a slow time. You and I have listeners and clients in the US and in Australia. In Australia, we have summer, so things will be slow up until Australia Day, which is the 26th of January. And in the US, it’s not as bad, but many companies in the US and even in Europe have the end of the financial year as also the end of the year.
In Australia, it’s July to June. Many American companies is January to December. So they have the end of financial year ⁓ work that they need to do and AGMs and this and that. So nothing really picks up before February, even for them, even if it’s winter. So I think it’s interesting also to remember this. And I know that I work with privileged people and privileged clients, most of them.
even though financially being unemployed is tough and I’ve been in that situation, most of the anxiety, Michelle, comes from the mindset. It’s psychological more than financial. I have discussed this with clients where they would come to me and say, I think I’ll be OK for the next four months, six months. In fact, if you adopt a
budget, you can even last longer than that. But in their minds, being without a job for that long is suicide when it’s not. is not. Recruiters don’t care anymore. minds, especially the most senior you are, the harder it is for you to get a job. Out of the pyramid, you’re not looking for a job at McDonald’s anymore. You are looking for a senior role. And if you’re in Australia, it’s a very small job market.
Michelle Redfern (08:24)
Of course.
Renata Bernarde (08:34)
If you’re in a small town in many places in the US, it’s a small job market as well. You have to be aware of that and plan yourself for that psychologically so that ⁓ in the future, for the rest of your career, you need to always have a safety net ready to go. But this is actually the time you use your safety net.
⁓ savings, you have family that can help, if you can rent one of your bedrooms, whatever you need to do, this is the time. It’s not for the future. It’s now that you need to activate those strategies to set yourself up for success.
Michelle Redfern (09:20)
So that’s the very practical side. But what about, you talked about the emotional and the psychological side. let me put a scenario to you. Well, of course, it’s December. What happens in December? We go to Christmas parties and family gatherings and you know what, even for non-Christians, there’s kind of stuff going on. There’s social gatherings. how are you, Renata? What are you up to now? I’m unemployed. I’m looking for a job.
that that can be soul destroying to say, I’m, and I do, I’m quoting one of the very senior women who attends my Hour of Power group coaching sessions every Friday in Leeds, Soar. And she is just a wonderfully talented woman, but she’s been in the job hunting market for most of this year. And she says, with a bright smile, I’m professionally unemployed.
But sometimes a smile isn’t as bright as other weeks. And it’s a tough thing to have to up and say, I don’t have a job. How do you coach people around, number one, preparing for that, Renata, but managing it?
Renata Bernarde (10:33)
No, it’s the hardest thing. It’s the hardest thing. And we sometimes do more than one session just so that we can get the narrative right. I had clients that had more than one session with me just to work out what to say to their parents. And I understand that 100%. And the Christmas time is a tough time.
Michelle Redfern (10:51)
I can’t it!
Renata Bernarde (11:00)
Personally, I have been there more than once, so I know how it feels. And getting that narrative right is really important. I sort of found my, I found my sparkle, maybe my inspiration to help my clients in the oddest place. I spent two weeks in intensive care with my son. My son went, spent two weeks in intensive care.
In another country, I had to fly over to meet him there. It was very distressing and, of course, horrible for the entire family. And he ⁓ was in a very difficult state. And it was just before Christmas, by the way. So we landed back in Australia on the 22nd of December. And during that time in intensive care, he had a psychologist that would come and see him every day.
to discuss how he was feeling and to discuss what he would say about how he looked. At the time he had received terrible burns. He’s completely fine now. And they would create different stories. How about you say you were bitten by a crocodile? He was young at the time. How about you say, you, you, ⁓
You know, and he was then supposed to create all of these different scenarios and play around with the truth and play around with what to say. And basically she was empowering him to tell whatever story he wanted to tell because it was nobody’s business. And I loved that, you know, and he fully recovered. Thank goodness it was all fine. This was a school excursion overseas that went terribly wrong. And
Michelle Redfern (12:37)
Yeah.
Renata Bernarde (12:49)
And he went back home and he told whatever story he told. Anyhow, actually use that for my clients and I tell them what, how much do you want to say? What do you want to say? It’s totally up to you. It’s no one’s business. Right now, when you talk to a recruiter is different because you have to be authentic and you have to be professional.
Michelle Redfern (13:05)
I love that.
Renata Bernarde (13:16)
and they will pick up on a lie. Do not never lie to a recruiter. They do this all day every day. All a recruiter does all day every day is talk to people that have no jobs. Right. So you’re no different from anybody else that they see. And what they want is to to know exactly what happens to you in the best possible way possible so that they can move on. This is their due diligence. They need to ask you this.
in order to move on to the meaty stuff, the important stuff. But you need to tell them what happened. ⁓
Michelle Redfern (13:52)
is
quite interesting. there’s the narrative for family, friends, networking, whatever it may be, and I love that, and I want to explore a couple of quick tips there, but be brutally honest with your recruiter because they, well, they can probably smell a bit of bullshit anyway.
Renata Bernarde (14:12)
And
I think with the recruiter also, it has to be crisp and clear and confident.
Michelle Redfern (14:23)
So there’s also a narrative that you can coach on there, Renata. So you help your clients with that.
Renata Bernarde (14:28)
Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. No, because it’s important because mostly what has happened to my clients is not unique. It’s very weird as somebody comes to me with a unique situation. They all think it’s unique. And then they say, oh, you know, maybe you’re not used to this. This is what happened to me. I’m like, maybe this has happened to like 100 % of my clients. But every now and then there will be a really difficult case. And that’s the case I want.
Please let me help you because this is so different and so ⁓ unique. actually want as a coach to learn from you. By coaching you, I will learn from you. But most of the time, restructures being made redundant, layoffs, terminations, you know, because you’re not seeing eye to eye with the chairman anymore. The board wants you a different type of CEO or CFO or
CMO or C- this is normal like this is this part and parcel of being a corporate professional if you were a Footballer and you were or rugby player whatever and all of a sudden the team needed a different type of Skill you would be traded with another Football by me you’re in
Michelle Redfern (15:51)
I was going to say you’re talking my language now because you’re talking footy but you’re absolutely right. my goodness. We’ve ended up with 10 full forwards and we actually need more mids. Two full forwards have to go and we get in two mids. I totally agree. And again, I think there’s some mindset stuff around that. My job is no longer there but it doesn’t mean I’m not. I’m still the great person I am. coming back to our previous week’s podcast,
What are my strengths? What am I good at? But I want to get into these tips. OK, ⁓ I have to go to my partner’s Christmas party with them in two weeks’ time. People are going to say, so what do you do, Michelle? What do I, how do I get ready for that, Renata? What do I need to think about? And because everyone’s going to have their own narrative, as you rightly said, but what without, you know, apart from you need to go and work with Renata. you know, what
What are some things I should be thinking about to prepare myself for that? Because it’s going to happen, right? I’m unemployed. what do we, how can we prepare our language or our narrative?
Renata Bernarde (17:03)
What you’ve just said before about you still being a professional in your area of expertise is exactly the answer to that question. So myself, for example, if I had left the John Monash Foundation just before Christmas, I started working at Monash University in March. So I was without a job for about four months. Right. I got that question. What do do, Renata?
I work in the not-for-profit sector. I’ve worked in high education. My most recent job was in the not-for-profit sector. My key areas is government relations, fundraising, business development. That is my answer. Oh, why did you leave your job? So it was the end of my contract. I didn’t want to renew it. The board wanted somebody different to lead the organization. I was ready to leave. That’s it.
Michelle Redfern (18:00)
Love that. That is just so simple. And you know what you’ve done there, which long-time listeners will know what I’m going to say here, you’ve stated your positional purpose. I am a CEO who in the not-for-profit sector who raises funds, builds relationships and delivers the outcomes. You know, it’s actually about the, you know, I say the three-parter is what are the problems I solve, the value I create, the outcomes I deliver.
That doesn’t change with your employer or your job. It is the essence of your strengths and what you bring, how you show up. I love that.
Renata Bernarde (18:38)
And in fact, if you say, you know, I’m looking for new opportunities, that’s when people will say, ⁓ you know, tell me more, you know, maybe.
Michelle Redfern (18:46)
Yeah,
I know so and so. You should go and talk to someone and let me make an introduction. Strategic networking, I love it.
Renata Bernarde (18:52)
Yeah.
The other thing that I have gone through, and I know many of my clients and your listeners might go through as well, is when you want to do a career change. like I said, the other time that I was without a job was when my role was made redundant at Monash University. I left. It was beginning of November. And I was heartbroken. Heartbroken. Imagine a person who is really, really sad. That was me. Right? Because I felt like I had
many more years to go at Monash. The job was just fascinating, but it was extremely challenging and there was nothing that we could do. Politically, the scope wasn’t there. There was no reason to keep me there. Remember that time when we had like five different ministers in sort of three years.
Michelle Redfern (19:45)
Yeah, yes.
Renata Bernarde (19:48)
The reason why they hired me did not exist anymore. It was that situation. I then immediately received an invitation to come in for a conversation for a role, a CEO role, and I wanted to vomit. That’s when I knew that
Michelle Redfern (20:10)
it’s not something that you wanted.
Renata Bernarde (20:12)
It was a great role. It was a great role. I knew the chair. knew that it was such a good role for me. It would fit me like a glove. But I didn’t want it anymore. I wanted to be a coach and it was time for me to move on. Then the conversation can get really complicated, right? Because people that love you don’t want you to change.
And I’ve done this to my own friends, you know, I have a friend who was an excellent
Michelle Redfern (20:44)
so good at that Renata, why would you give it all up? Or why would you give up the security of a job if we’re going out on your own? ⁓
Renata Bernarde (20:52)
be a coach? What are you thinking? know, and coaching even has this stigma, like people don’t really know what coaching is, and it’s not regulated. So of course, you have good coaches, bad coaches. So I got lots of weird faces at Christmas time that year, right? So you need to be quite strong, right? And I have helped a lot of senior executives who came to me for that reason to say, I am burnt out. I don’t want to be a CEO anymore.
How can I tell my headhunters who are hunting me, my family, that it’s time for me to change? What’s the best way to do that? And sometimes people that love you and adore you can be your worst enemies when you’re going through a career change.
Michelle Redfern (21:43)
because it’s making them feel uncomfortable and I think that’s a big part of it. I like that. you’re really, helping people to number one, ⁓ identify the scenarios that are going to come up. so, know, preparation prevents poor performance. We’ve all, we know that. So let’s identify and plan. Where will I be over the next couple of months, three months, whatever it may be? What am I likely to encounter? Number two, choose
Your narrative, it’s your story. And as you so rightly said with the example of your son, this is your story. It’s private and you say what you want to say. And I think that there is such a, so well linked to the next point, which is know my strengths, know my value, know my positional purpose, who am I in the world and present that story. But have a narrative, have it.
a story that is suitable for a number of different scenarios, whether it be family and friends, networking, a social gathering with my partner or friends, whatever it may be, but prepare. So you’re helping people prepare for that. So I think that’s a really good part of it because I think, you know, as much as we all want to belong, we all want to be included, we all want to be respected.
And part of that is that our identity is so wrapped up in what we do. not being able to say that is a big part. So that’s number one. I think it’s really great advice, Renata. But number two is what should I be doing over this period of time? Yes. Because, OK, maybe the jobs aren’t there, but there’s still work to do, right?
Renata Bernarde (23:30)
Yes. Well, a couple of things. Sometimes we, well, let me start by saying that seek.com knows this. This is the time of the year where a lot of people are looking at websites like seek.com or LinkedIn jobs or Indeed and whatnot. Like it goes through the roof, the number of people that look at those job boards. But
It’s much reduced the number of jobs advertised during that period. It’s just, it is what it is, right? People are on leave, recruiters take time off, HR professionals we know are mostly women. Most women would have kids and they need to take time off because it’s holidays, yada, yada. So there are not a lot of jobs advertised. I love that time of the year. As a career coach, can actually
make my clients focus more on the actual work of career planning and design, of pre-loading the work that you do in terms of preparation before you go to market, right? So understanding what you want out of your career, thinking long-term.
preparing your documentation, updating your LinkedIn, there’s just so much that you can do when the market is slow so that when it’s back on end of January, beginning of February, you can hit the ground running, right? So these things, I actually love working with clients at this time of the year because I can make them focus more and they’re not so distracted by red herrings and conversations and this and that.
But there are two other things that I really like about this time of the year. If you are open and vulnerable and have conversations with other people, you can learn so much. So business intelligence, tell me about the organization you work for and just bloody listen. It’s not about you. Nobody’s worried about you not having a job. Just listen. And you can even say,
you know, and this is what I do and I’m looking for work next year. What would you do if you were me?
work, right? I love I love people that actually engage in conversations and learn.
Michelle Redfern (26:04)
want to circle, that’s actually really good because it’s an ask. So we talk about, you know, the courageous ask, but it’s in a way of, it’s a really engaging way, not, can you give me a job, Renata? I’m looking for a and, you know, here’s, here’s what I do in the world. I’m a Diversity, Equity and Inclusion consultant. And, you know, next sort of January, February, I’m going to be looking for an in-house job. I’m not, by the way, listeners, but this is just go with me. Renata,
You’ve been in a CEO and you’re around. What advice would you give me about that? I love that. That’s just absolutely fabulous. But I also love I love the business intelligence link. Listen in what’s happening in industry, what’s happening in the economy. Listen to what’s happening, because if you you might hear a nugget of well, you know, of course, we’ve got the change in in US presidency. And of course, we’re I lead
the Australian division of a multinational. And what we’re going to find is we’ve already got the signals that in February, productivity pushes are going to really go up in the US. So we’re going to be hiring and it’s fascinating. Hang on a minute, productivity pushes. So when you’re tuning in, you can start to see the big picture and say, well, okay, maybe I should consider a different sector or something like that. So tuning in is really important as well.
Renata Bernarde (27:30)
Yes, yes, I think those organic conversations where you don’t feel like you need to over explain yourself is really important. It sets such a great. ⁓
It’s a different paradigm, I think, that people are not really used to. And I think because they have learned, frankly, they have learned networking wrong, all wrong. Just think about the things that we know are true in the sort of corporate world for women. You know how they say, make sure the idea is theirs, not yours. I know it’s all a fashion, but it works every time.
One of the things that I think doesn’t work is when you ask people to introduce yourself to others. I had that this week. A woman said, look, had a consultation with me and said, look, I was discussing this opportunity with a friend. He was actually telling me I should apply. asked him to introduce me to the hiring managers because I know he knows the hiring manager. And guess what, Renata? He hasn’t emailed me.
And I’m like, you know why? Because you made this uncomfortable. want introduce you to anybody, everybody in the audience. Please stop asking people to introduce you to whoever and stop asking people for coffees as well.
Michelle Redfern (28:59)
my god, you’re talking my language lady.
Renata Bernarde (29:02)
Michelle, you and I, how many times have we had a coffee?
Michelle Redfern (29:08)
Yeah
Renata Bernarde (29:11)
You know that,
Michelle Redfern (29:12)
Yeah, yeah, totally,
Renata Bernarde (29:15)
with
them together lots. Because it’s easy for us. don’t be…
Michelle Redfern (29:20)
Make it easy.
What should I do then? go, oh god, that Renata Bernadi, she’s a CEO of a very important organisation. She’s got a job going. And I know, I know her CFO. What can the CFO, can I ask my friend the CFO to introduce me to Renata? How can I make that? What should I do, Renata, instead of that? do you
Renata Bernarde (29:41)
Well, it
be their idea, not yours. Right. So it happened to me and that’s the Monash job that I got. had left the foundation, my lovely friend, Sue Zablut, who is also a coach and has been on my podcast. She said, oh, let’s workshop a few ideas together. Now she’s being all coach and mentoring me. I’m like, yeah, yeah, yeah. We spent like two hours just writing on a whiteboard, all the things that I could do. And she was so
came to give me advice and I said, ⁓ Sue, I don’t know. We’re talking, talking, talking, but all I want to do is go back to Monash. Have you seen this thing that happened? The vice chancellor, Margaret, who’s now the governor of Victoria, advertised that she’s starting this new ⁓ enterprise portfolio and she hired this ⁓ English guy to lead it.
And she’s like, ⁓ I know him. And I’m like, no, no, no, you don’t know him. He’s not in Australia yet. He’s in the UK. It’s like, I know him. And I’m like, you’re joking. He said, no, know him. I said, well, okay, tell me more. ⁓ no, no. Yes. I can’t, you know, he’s not in Australia yet, but I know him. Do you want me to introduce you? I could introduce you. I did not ask for that. If she hadn’t offered, I still wouldn’t have asked because it’s a special class.
Michelle Redfern (30:59)
that’d be nice.
But here’s what happened and this is what I, so like your friend, I will be talking with amazing women and something, yeah, and often they’ve come to me for advice. Michelle, can I just have 30 minutes of your time? Yep, no problem. What do you want to talk about? This, cool, let’s talk, blah, blah, blah, And we have all the questions and what have you. And they might say, and I’m thinking of a particular,
⁓ woman that I’ve had the great fortune of mentoring over the last few years. And she expressed her ambition. She expressed her aspiration around a particular role in sport. And I went, but I know so-and-so and so-and-so. And I know her and I know her track record. I know how good she is at what she’s done. And she’s been vulnerable enough to say to me, these are the things I’m really good at.
because, you know, we get coached not to say that. And I’ve got to know her and I went, you know what, I really want to connect you with so-and-so and so-and-so because I think you would be great for that organization. Guess what? I did. She did. Her relationship formed. She’s now working for one of them. No time did she ask me to do that. But I, so I think there’s a real, so that the moral of the story here is,
Renata Bernarde (32:27)
Yeah.
Michelle Redfern (32:34)
When you’re working with people who are well networked and have contacts, be very clear about your value proposition and what you want. So this comes back to, we talked about it last week, what are your strengths? So I think some of the other work that we can do in this downtime over the holiday period, are you working with people to really get clear on their strengths and what they bring? Is that something else?
Renata Bernarde (33:01)
yes. Look, a couple of things about strengths. They are way more important than your weaknesses. Do not spend downtime investing in more executive education because you feel that there’s a gap that you need to fill in. I don’t know, whatever it is. Right.
Michelle Redfern (33:19)
I’m sorry listeners, I’m chuckling away here because my wife has just walked past to go out the door but I do remember her saying, Misha, no more training courses. Just get on with it.
Renata Bernarde (33:32)
Yes.
And I think, know, Michelle, you don’t know this, but the first episode we recorded together was on my podcast and you discussed how your MBA was so important for you. Right. Remember that most of the time and I teach, Hey, I teach at masters at Monash University, but most of the time I’m telling my clients, do not invest in MBAs when you are unemployed. Right. They should be part of your professional development as part of your
Michelle Redfern (33:46)
Yep.
Renata Bernarde (34:04)
performance management supported by your next employer, at least as a study leave, if not, you know, financial support as well. If you want to do ⁓ professional development to understand cyber security or ESG or AI or whatever it is, you can do it. You don’t even need to add that to your resume. Not everything you do needs to be added to your resume. Sometimes adding too much stuff to your resume
actually diminishes your executive presence. So you just have to be careful not to present yourself for somebody who is learning, learning, learning. Sometimes you need to have that executive presence. That’s the whole performance of the recruitment and selection process that we discussed before.
Michelle Redfern (34:50)
I agree with you because I certainly, as a hiring manager, I have looked at people with a great long list of qualifications and trainings and thought, that’s great, there’s all the theory, but I’m not seeing that replicated in their track record. What have they delivered? And they’re not able to articulate how they’ve brought that learning to life to solve my problems that I’m hiring for. So I think it’s a really, really good time.
Renata Bernarde (35:16)
articulation, that articulation is the whole understanding of your strengths, right? So I work with a strengths assessment program. When I’m working with my private coaching clients, that’s not where I start, because I believe that strengths assessment is great. You can actually go to my website and do it, get the report, etc. What worries me is that you will do it, get the report and then never look at it again. I don’t want you to be
Frankly, I don’t want you to be lazy and go back and read whatever strengths assessment you’ve done in the past. Maybe it was a Gallup or whatever. I want you to actually workshop and brainstorm yourself in a notebook. Write it down, what your strengths are, what your competencies are, what leadership style do you have? Frankly, if you’re
If you have a team of more than three people and you don’t understand leadership styles and leadership management theory, that’s where you need to start. Just get yourself a Peter Drucker book. What you know, start from from the basics and move up. Don’t tell me that you are servant leadership if you have not read.
Michelle Redfern (36:29)
God. I can, you know, there’s two articles, one by Drucker, which ⁓ is, Should Anyone Be Led By You, which is a great HVR article which captures exactly what you just said. And number two is Leadership That Gets Results by Daniel Goleman et al. and others, which gives the six leadership styles. I teach that now. In fact, I spent a day with a group of executives this week talking about
leadership styles and using them and how to describe who you are. So, so they’ve got homework at the moment, which is what is your leadership philosophy and story? Because you will be asked whether it’s by your people, but in this case, by people who are going to hire you. What can we expect from you, Michelle, as a leader? Well, what you can expect is that I always lead from out the front. I like being out front, but I’ve learned that I need to check in and make sure people are coming with me.
That’s it. So I love that Renata. So don’t go and do an MBA or executive learning. Figure out who you are, how you want to show up, why should someone hire me? What’s that? No, what’s my? I was going to say pitch then, but it really does go beyond a pitch because you need to deeply know this.
Renata Bernarde (37:49)
Yes. We cannot finish without saying that none of this will work without LinkedIn. I’m sorry, everybody. ⁓
Michelle Redfern (37:57)
So glad you went
there because I was just about to talk about strategic networking and that is such a massive tool, isn’t it?
Renata Bernarde (38:04)
Well, this is what’s happening at the moment. This is end of 2024, 2025 will be even more so. Recruiters don’t need to advertise roles anymore, Michelle. Nobody needs to advertise roles anymore. You can be found. So if you’re not on LinkedIn with an optimized profile that can be easily found, you are in trouble, right? That’s why I do LinkedIn audits and that’s why it’s so popular.
You know website SEO experts? That’s me for LinkedIn, right? You have.
Michelle Redfern (38:39)
I love that. love that. There
you go. Isn’t that it? This is the stuff I do. I optimise your LinkedIn profile. What a great positional purpose. Renata, and what a great time to look at optimising your LinkedIn profile over this inverted commas quiet time. for long-term listeners and
Renata Bernarde (38:44)
That’s point.
Michelle Redfern (39:07)
members of Lead to Soar and others, will know that in Lead to Soar, we use December as our stop, breathe, reflect month. Stop.
Now, Where am I? How did I get here?
what still serves me, what no longer serves me and what am I going to do about that? You know, that is a great reflective exercise. No matter what stage of your career or job hunting or whatever it may be, but for job hunters, that’s what you were saying is stop, breathe, reflect, reflect and then say, and what do I do about that? And I cannot, cannot, emphasize enough or agree with you enough about LinkedIn, Renata.
Yeah, honestly, I can say I still get, I’m now getting WhatsApp messages from recruiters and text messages and LinkedIn messages and email saying, I know that you’re this, but we have a CEO job. Are you interested? Or a board of advisors or whatever it may be. I am not job hunting, but I am still being head hunted ⁓ periodically. And that is absolutely because of my online presence. So
You know, it is so important. What’s one thing? ⁓ OK, one thing that job hunters can do with you around their LinkedIn, Renata, you mentioned it briefly, but let’s go there.
Renata Bernarde (40:40)
Sorry, let me understand again. What is it that they can do with me or by themselves?
Michelle Redfern (40:44)
No, So there’s something you offer. your LinkedIn. Tell us about the LinkedIn audit.
Renata Bernarde (40:50)
So the LinkedIn audit is really like an SEO website audit. So I will review the profile top to bottom, ⁓ aiming at maximizing it so that it can be found by recruiters for the positions that you are looking to be found for. So ⁓ what I am told by people that have done LinkedIn audits with me is that it completely changes the game for them.
So they can see in their insights, in their metrics, if they have LinkedIn premium, that the profile is being looked at much, much more. And of course, they then find that they don’t need to apply for jobs as much. I have clients that sometimes don’t even know what to do. Like, it seems like I’m not doing anything. I’m like, what are you saying? You have four interviews coming up. You know, because this is how LinkedIn works now.
you need to be found for the jobs that you want, recruiters will come to you either by messaging you or they will use your contact details, email, mobile number if you’re keen to let it publicly available and they will find you. And it needs to be optimized top to bottom. the blue chip real estate is the first box there. So we need to optimize all of that. And there are some things that are behind my.
you know, my client IP, I’m not going to tell everybody what I do, it’s so important and nobody knows about. And then as we move down to the about section and each of the work experiences all the way up to the skills you need to have everything, we do that. depending on the professional, we discuss activities. Why do I say depending on the professional? Because everything is tailored.
A client of mine in the Middle East will have a very different profile to a client of mine in Belgium, to a client of mine in New York City, to a client of mine in Melbourne. So I have clients all over the world. The profiles are not the same. They have to be ⁓ acceptable geographically and also at the level that the professional works at. So if they’re very senior.
And then there’s industry as well. So if somebody works at the Department of Justice in Australia, they do not do activity on LinkedIn, but they can do messaging. we look at the different ways we can optimize the LinkedIn profile for their profession, their geographic location, and area of expertise.
Michelle Redfern (43:29)
I love that and listeners I’m going to put a link I’m going to put all the links into the show notes so that you can tap into that. So if you’re a job hunter just to bring us to a close because we could talk quite literally for hours to bring us to a close if you’re job hunting right now in in December 2024 or anytime but particularly in the holiday season some things to pay attention to. Number one start building your narrative.
how do I handle myself in the inevitable gatherings and environments where I have to explain what I’m doing. And getting your narrative ready means that you are dealing with all of the mindsets, the anxiety, the guilt and the shame that people inevitably have. Number two, don’t enroll in an MBA at this time, but do identify your strengths and the stuff
the development that you need to do. Again, I think, you know, have a look at Renata’s website. She’s got lots of really good tips about here’s some things to do, but go and listen to her podcast as well, because it pretty much whatever you think, I reckon I should be doing this over the next couple of months, there will be a podcast about it. And number three,
get that LinkedIn profile optimized. It is such an important tool. And you have so rightly said it, Renata, that jobs are not advertised. The best jobs are often not advertised. A search consultant will be given a task, go and find this person and they will use LinkedIn because it’s pretty much the only professional black book out there.
in the world that’s online. So if you can’t be found, you can’t be found. So that’s the three, I guess, macro tips. Renata, Bernadie, anything else? One more thing that you, one more piece of advice for a job hunter coming into this period, what’s one thing you want to tell them?
Renata Bernarde (45:35)
You know what, take a break. Take a break. You will be okay. You will find a job next year. You will find a job in a few weeks, in a few months. You can take a break from job seeking during this time or any time and you will still be fine, right? I say this because sometimes people are very burnt out this time of the year. Even if you’re fully employed, you’re gonna be burnt out.
your brain needs to rewire before it can be creative again, before it can be inventive and being inspired by your next career steps. And to go from that fight and flight mode into, you know, workshopping what you will do next is not going to do you any good. Take at least a few weeks off to rewire your brain.
Michelle Redfern (46:29)
job hunting is a job. Let’s have a holiday from that job. I love that. Renata, thank you for being with us over these two weeks and you know really as always helping our community to just understand and navigate the process of job hunting. You’re such an expert and and such a great friend to the community and to me. So thank you very much and happy holidays, Merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah and and all of the things
Renata Bernarde (46:30)
Yes, yes.
Michelle Redfern (46:58)
to you and your family.
Renata Bernarde (46:59)
Thank you so much, Michelle. Back at you. ⁓
