Renata (01:08)
I’d love to hear about you. And I know that the listeners are curious as to why you’re here as a guest today. So why don’t we start.
with you telling us about yourself and your career so far.
TJ Slattery (01:23)
Let’s see how long you got.
Renata (01:26)
A lot of time. Go ahead.
TJ Slattery (01:28)
So I’m T.J. Slattery. I’m based here in Denver, Colorado in the U.S. My business is Crow’s Nest Consulting and I do strategic advising for small business owners. And I got to this point in consulting and working as an advisor just from a whole career since I was a kid in entrepreneurship and working in small businesses. mean going back to starting Lemonade stands in, you know, when you’re little kid up to
Renata (01:49)
Mmm.
TJ Slattery (01:56)
starting a handyman service in high school and in college right now with my brother, starting a petty cab and rickshaw business up in the mountains. I’ve sold windows, I’ve been in that industry, I’ve been a snowboard instructor, really all over the place with kind of career format. But I went to college for undergrad for an interdisciplinary business management.
which makes you a master of none. You come out of four years of college and you’re not specifically in the accounting or an econ or finance or marketing. You’re doing a little bit of everything. And so I always knew from a young age and in school that I wanted to be more in the entrepreneurial seat and having a good brush off in every one of those avenues makes you a better owner and entrepreneur because you have at least some familiarity with all the aspects of the business. So most recently I did a startup brewery here in Denver.
It’s about a million dollar startup. My business partner was the brewer side of the business and I was the business side. Two years of planning and building from 2015 to 2017 opened up and then ran three years in the black up until 2020. Then I exited, so I went back to my partner. And that was such an amazing experience. One, because I was getting my MBA from 2015 to 2017 and taking classes, know, master’s classes all directly built on, you know, the brewery and the industry, which is fantastic.
and applying it to the business plan and model while we were getting going. But then actually going and doing everything from scratch and building all the systems and processes and dealing with all the different employee components and all the recruiting and management. Putting managers and to manage your managers and they got to experience from the ground up what it’s like to build a brick and mortar, have 12 employees, grow a business to a great extent and to get out.
So I came with all that experience into the consulting world. I said, you what’s next? What’s this pivot? After you come out of this, it’s hard to go to work for somebody after you’ve been the boss for so long. So it’s hard to go and find a job. Nobody wants to hire you. You’re unhireable because you kind of have that independent streak that’s hard to manage. You don’t want to be hired because you’re used to doing things your own way.
Renata (03:40)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
TJ Slattery (04:02)
So I was thinking either, you know, get into, um, you know, do their startup, which that nearly killed me. Do it the first time. I was like, wait a few more years, get your energy back, go buy a business and acquisitions or get into consulting. And so I had the, uh, fortunate in in my search to go find a group that I started getting into consulting with that really honed all of my experience of boots on the ground work, uh, tying it with some of the structure.
that I provide even now with my clients and becoming an advisor. So this is great. I can use all my experience and the structure that I now have to help small business owners to grow and scale their business from anywhere from half a million or a million in revenue up to 10 or 12 million with any level of employees. I’m pretty initially agnostic. It really depends on are you wanting to grow your business? Do you have a reasonable vision and goal? Do you have some employees behind to help make this happen? And are you open to outside help?
to get you over the humps that you need to bring in that expertise to grow you little bit further. So that’s the long and short of some of my entrepreneurial career and how I got into advising in the consulting world.
Renata (05:04)
Yeah. How do you prefer to help founders and people that might be, let’s say, coming out of corporate world and they want to set up a business? Do you prefer to sink your teeth into one project and, you know, have that one client and support them? Or are you somebody that is kind of coaching a couple of people or even more people to develop their businesses?
I’m trying to think about your day to day if you have several clients or if you prefer to have several clients or if you prefer to consult with one client and get that business springboarded.
TJ Slattery (05:45)
Excellent question. So my model is more based around working with clients on a coaching advisory capacity. We’ll meet twice a month for a two hour deep dive to work on their business. And that gives me with the capacity up to 15 or 20 clients. 15 would be a really full book. 20 is probably irresponsible because that’s too many businesses to keep track of.
Renata (05:55)
Mm-hmm. Okay.
Yeah, now I get you. I think that that’s great. I was talking to you before about the fact that I’ve been talking to companies that are making hundreds, if not thousands of people redundant from their jobs in the coming weeks and months ahead. And I’ve had several meetings. I’m currently doing that sort of outplacement, which I do pretty much like you. know, I do one-on-one coaching for some clients.
But most of my clients do other types of services that are much more easily accessible, like courses, for example, that teach them how to find work, teach them how to do career planning and design. But as you walk out of a job, let’s say you’ve stayed in an organization for 10, 20 years, you may not want another job. You may want to have your own business, but then you don’t have the tool sets, right? So that you need, I mean, you don’t need to, but you should connect with somebody like you.
to support in that endeavor so that you don’t miss out on the opportunity of having a successful business. Have you worked with individuals that are coming out of long tenures in corporate and trying to establish their own businesses?
TJ Slattery (07:23)
Uh, you know, haven’t encountered those guys yet. I used to compete with them in the acquisitions market. Cause there was a, there was a big influx in small business acquisitions for on the buy side because a ton of people had come out of, uh, their corporate job during COVID and they were working from home and they had spent how many years in the corporate world. So you know what? I don’t want to go back to the office. I don’t want go back to keep doing what I’ve been doing. I’ve got a nest egg from having lived the corporate life for this long. I can go put that towards buying a new business.
Renata (07:29)
yeah.
Mm-hmm.
TJ Slattery (07:53)
So those were actually the guys when I was in acquisitions were the ones I was competing with. And they did buy up a lot of the small businesses, but we shall see how they do in the next five years. Cause there is a, there is a missing skillset to jumping in on that. They have the management, communication, infrastructure kind of components put together from their background, but managing a small business and being there in the day to day is a very different animal.
Renata (07:57)
Mm-hmm.
TJ Slattery (08:16)
So, here’s to you how those guys work. And also, I struggle with if it’s a startup business or a newly acquired business from my position because of something that I call entrepreneurial hubris. So, you can guess what that means, but typically it is because you have just started your business, you have a fresh new business plan, you’ve got funding, and right now the business plan is perfect, technically, because it’s not been tested.
Renata (08:16)
Yeah.
TJ Slattery (08:44)
So those are the guys I’m happy to support and lend an ear to or give advice to here and there. But they don’t usually want it because they haven’t had a chance to get the crap out of them yet. So those same entrepreneurs or solo entrepreneurs as they’re growing in their business, I’ll talk again three to five years later. And it’s not saying we might tie. So everybody’s got to plan to get punch the mouth.
Renata (08:58)
Yeah.
TJ Slattery (09:09)
And so suddenly they’ve had the crap kicked out of for three or five years working in the small business world. They’re a little bit more eager to have help on the outside because the entrepreneur here has been kicked out of him a bit. And now it’s, know what, if you can make the bleeding stop, I’m all ears. So typically there are, there are a couple more years into it, but if there is, there’s a new entrepreneur that’s just bought a business, I’d be happy to talk with them about how are we putting the systems into place to achieve the vision that you’ve put together and what you’re trying to get out of this.
Renata (09:19)
Mm-hmm.
TJ, that’s so interesting. I talk about that human behavior all the time on the podcast because that happens also with professionals that are looking for work and they think, it’s okay. I’ll do it on my own. And then six months later, eight months later, a year later, they come to me and say, my God, I haven’t found a job yet. I’m still looking. Can you help? And I think the podcast and what I’m trying to do, it’s been six years now, is hoping to educate people.
TJ Slattery (09:47)
Mm-hmm.
Renata (10:08)
not to fall into this optimistic bias trap. You call it, entrepreneur, I call it an optimistic. Yes, no, for me, it’s the optimism bias where you always think that with you it’s going to be different. In your case, know, yeah, 90 % of startups fail. but not mine. Mine is going to be perfect, right?
TJ Slattery (10:15)
entrepreneurial hubris yes
I’m that 10 %?
Yep.
Renata (10:34)
And that happens with job searching as well. So it’s human behavior. We fall into this trap where we think our house renovation is not going to cost us as much as our neighbors. It’s not going to last as long. It’s not, you know, our kids will be better behave. Everything is kind of going to be better with us. We have that optimism bias. And that is a it’s a good thing to have because it.
sort of springs, spring boards you into new things and in taking risks, but it can be a trap as well if you don’t seek mentoring and support because you might end up without any money and not being able to hire you. So what I think is happening is that the ones that end up reaching out to you two to three years from now are struggling, but they still have the financial ability to hire you. Whereas the others won’t, you know, and there’s a
a filter there that I’m hoping by people listening to us today that they will realize that it’s a trap that they shouldn’t fall under and investing before is actually a better investment than waiting two to three years to invest. What do you think? Yeah.
TJ Slattery (11:44)
Absolutely. Yeah, I think
in your podcast is doing a great service towards that and educating people about the importance of your subject matter expertise, which I think it’s maybe part of the hubris that you act. I’m not that 90 % but part of it’s they might not know. It might be a how hard can it be? This is, you know, there’s a common sense thing I can go tackle when really it’s those is actually something you should bring a professional in.
And I keep great example. I think you can see there’s still cocking and stuff on my hands from trying to redo the cocking around my sink in the kitchen. How hard can this be? It’s fine. I’ve done cocking before. It can’t be that much of a mess. I think I’ve cumulatively spent six or seven hours now trying to get it right. And it’s just a total nightmare. Okay, just there is a professional that does this for a reason that you’re not really supposed to DIY it because it’s it’s challenging. So it’s a similar thing that you have to experience it a couple of times to realize
Renata (12:17)
This is it.
you
TJ Slattery (12:37)
Actually the person with 25 or 30 years experience knows how they’re doing this this well because they’ve been doing it for that long and I’m, know, so throwing myself against that wall over and over and over again, now I can reach out to get that leg up at the onset.
Renata (12:43)
Mm-hmm.
I love that example. Thanks for that. So I think you’re right. You know, I’m just thinking about a client coming out of a long tenure in an organization and she’s going to, because of that long tenure, she’s going to get quite a lot of money from the restructure and in her redundancy package. And she could opt to live with it for, you know, a year and find a job slowly, which
will probably happen. A job is not going to happen overnight for anybody. It usually takes at least three months, if not more, if you’re not used to the job search. Or you could think, okay, let me look at a franchise. Let me look at buying something. Let me look at bootstrapping my startup that I’ve always wanted to have. So there is an option there. And that’s an option that I took when I left my job.
TJ Slattery (13:49)
Mm-hmm.
Renata (13:49)
So I
started my business, which is a micro business. It’s just me and it’s the podcast and my coaching and my courses. But I want people listening to this episode who have been made redundant or know that their jobs are at risk to think broadly about their opportunities. Right? So I’d love to hear from you before we go into people that might want to work in small business. And we are going to tackle that later in our conversation. But if…
People are thinking about an idea, a business. Tell me what their first step should be. What should they do in order to advance their thinking so it’s not just in their heads? Is there anything that they can do to start brainstorming and workshopping this idea in a more practical way?
TJ Slattery (14:39)
Absolutely. Love that you’re asking that. It’s a lot of work that I do with owners that are, even if they’re three or five years in, say, okay, let’s get an idea of what the model of your business is. And we’ll look at what the last few years looked like on their financials, and what’s your org chart look like, and what’s your different revenue streams. So for somebody that’s getting off the ground, I would say do that now, and paint this out. What does the next one to five years look like as far as your financials go?
How much revenue do you have to make? What’s your overhead cost? Do the research. Go through and say, okay, if I had a paint shop or arts and crafts supplies or I’m running a horse farm, what are all the different pieces to that that would cost me on a monthly basis? And what are my variable costs? And build out your pro forma over the next year and the next five years to say, if I’m put this much money in, what am I trying to get out? And paint the picture and see if it’s workable.
and then go through and figure out your revenue streams and different pieces. like, when do I have to hire my first person? But actually start to model this out and start to game out different scenarios that would happen in your head. And on paper, but I think the biggest pitfall that happens with entrepreneurs and small business owners. I’ve found this even with the owners that have been doing it for seven years is they might have like magical thinking and they’ll say, okay, if I do this, AC is going to happen.
which we talked a little bit about the South Park creators at the top of the show when you and I were chatting. And South Park created this amazing episode several years ago about underpants gnomes. I if you’re familiar with the episode at all.
Renata (16:09)
Mm-hmm.
No, tell me.
TJ Slattery (16:20)
I promise you this is relevant.
Renata (16:21)
I’m sure
my husband and my kids are, but I’m not.
TJ Slattery (16:25)
Oh,
in the underpants gnomes episode, one of the kids tweet comes out to the rest of the kids and says, you guys, oh my God, the underpants gnomes, they came again last night and stole all my underpants. They go tweet, there’s no such thing as underpants gnomes. You’re crazy, that’s not a thing. goes, you guys don’t believe me, we’ll go tonight and we’ll stake out my bedroom and I’ll show you when they come at midnight. Okay, fine. So they go and stake out the kids’ room and sure enough, the stroke of midnight.
Income March in the underpants domes singing a song about how they’re underpants domes and use the kids dresser drawers to climb up to the underpants You know the top drawer and once they get up to the kids turn the light on they go. Oh my gosh They’re they’re real first of all they actually exist in two Why? Why are you stealing underpants? They go simple for profit Yeah, how does that work and they go to the big whiteboard the nodes? They have a whiteboard with they go step one steal underpants step two
Step three, profit. Wait, wait, wait, back up. What’s step two? Step one, steal underpants. Step two, big question mark on the whiteboard. Step three, profit. Hey, what’s step two? And so they never figured out what step two was. And it’s the biggest pitfall that I see owners that have been doing this for 10 or 20 years as an entrepreneur, and they still have magical thinking. Where if I put this idea into place, this is magically gonna happen.
You’ve got, I’ve told so many clients, you’re applying underpants syndrome to this situation. You’re not thinking through, what if this happens, what if that happens? Every step of the way, how is your business model set up over the next year? And is this actually based on real numbers? Have you asked around, done the research?
to see if that’s going to cost that much. Is that variable cost going to change? What’s your overhead of your rent going to be? How many square feet do you need? What’s the traffic count? How many people can you get in the door? What’s your marketing budget going to be? Is that actually going to bring in people in the door? It’s really asking those hard questions, which for me, it’s with an entrepreneur or with a seasoned veteran or owner of a business, I’ll holes and ask those questions. So anyone that’s trying to get something off the ground right now, find somebody that you trust to give you honest feedback.
and say, this is my plan. Here’s what I’m going try to do. Can they poke holes in your plan? Because that’s the most valuable thing you can get is some honest third party feedback. That’s not going to be a family friend that’s like, that’s so brilliant. I’m so excited if you’re a balloon shop, you’re going to sell all helium balloons. That’s the only thing. And you’re going to put 100 miles for everybody else. Like, that’s a great, wonderful idea. Somebody that’s really going to poke holes and truly look at your business plan to say, what about this and what about that? Because you need to make sure that it’s a sturdy plan.
that you’ve thought through the ins and outs and you’re not applying natural thinking.
Renata (19:04)
Yes, I love that. know, from time to time, people book consultations to talk to me about setting up a coaching business or some sort of service provision that looks like mine. And it’s quite funny because my coaching sessions, my consultations are for job seekers, but people just listen to my podcast and they’re like, I want to do what you’re doing. And they come with that same, I hadn’t thought of it like that, but I love what you just explained because they say, okay, I have a website now.
You know, have a website now. How are people going to find your website? What are you selling exactly? it, you know, because I’m a coach and consultants, I mean, you know this, because that’s what you do as well. You know, the website doesn’t have information about the types of services. There’s no pipeline or funnel for them to find the business. And none of that is happening yet.
TJ Slattery (19:35)
Right? Alright, job done. Side South parent, you’re like… And…
Renata (20:04)
And I find it really interesting. It was very humbling for me when I left my job because I used to work at a university that had a one of the things that was under my remit was an incubator. So I used to have people working in this incubator and they kind of reported to me and I had to then go back to the incubator and do the the program twice in order to to develop my ideas. You know, I did it once and I’m like.
Now I have to do it again next year because I still don’t think I have this idea, it validated the way that I want it. I went back and I did it twice. So there I was, you know, a student being taught by people that used to report to me. It was quite humbling. And I think that if you are a corporate professional starting your own business, it will be a loss of status quo and it will be quite humbling for you to realize how little you know about…
marketing and about developing your commercial now at that small scale.
TJ Slattery (21:08)
I see that a lot because it from the outside and it looks very simple in some ways it can be But each one of those is a specialty of its own I Mean there’s there’s specialist professionals in you know 19 different prongs of attack under the marketing wing alone There’s a reason that you have to be a you know have a CPA to your taxes There’s reason that there’s sales professionals that have been through hundreds of hours of training
Renata (21:14)
Yeah.
True.
TJ Slattery (21:37)
And all of a sudden you’re putting yourself in that position where you have to know a good amount about each one of those different hats to wear in the business. So it is very humbling to go in and be like, my God, the amount that I didn’t know about small business marketing can fill two air nets. It’s one of the reasons when I look for one of the characteristics I look for in small business owners is having a good level of introspection.
and being able to be humble about where they’re at. Because you can’t hire an outside advisor if you know everything. If you know everything already, why would you need to? But if you can look at yourself and say, here’s my strengths, here’s what I’m really good at, here’s what I do know. But here’s some areas that like, need to hire somebody to go and do this. I need to outsource my marketing, I need to hire a bookkeeper. These are things that it’s taken me forever to do on my own, it’s not really that good of work, because I don’t have experience in it.
So when you’re looking at your first hires and who you’re bringing on, it’s very clearly seeing like, am I capable of? What am I good at? What do want to do? And then start to fill your, your pocket with other people that humbly you can say, look, I’ve been doing this job since we started the business, but now we have enough money. You’re a lot better at this than I am. Please take it off my hands.
Renata (22:55)
TJ, even with all of that preparation and that wisdom, sometimes things fail, right? And I think that it’s the risk of failure that keeps people away from having their own business. Tell me about times where you failed and what does it mean for even your clients go through times when they think, okay, this is not going well, we need to stop operations and rethink.
how we’re gonna get money from now on. We think our business and we think our careers.
TJ Slattery (23:31)
mean, a lot of this goes into the beginning on your business plan and say, okay, here’s everything if it goes to plan. Here’s if it goes really, really well, but if everything goes out the window, what do we do then? And so having some steps in the back of your mind of if suddenly our supplier for X, Y, or Z just stops supplying or doubles their prices, what would that mean for us? What’s our backup plan?
I’ve actually spent a lot of time with clients on this. I call it, they’ll come in, they’re having issues sleeping, they’re stressed out, they’re anxious because they’re thinking about all these things that could go wrong because they’re starting to see where those blind spots are. And it’s terrifying and stressful that your whole livelihood is now tied to this business and you’re becoming very aware because something probably became threatened and now you’re aware of it. So I say, okay, while, between sessions, I’m to go home and write down your list of existential dread.
Like, what is that? All the things that you fear most that you see could be an issue for the business. And let’s start to, you know, go into the closet where you think the monster is, we’re going to turn the light on and see what’s actually in there. And for everything that we can work out a solution to, let’s do that. So, okay, this personally is my key man. I would die if this person left. Like, okay, let’s think of some backup systems and how we can secure.
Renata (24:37)
Hmm.
TJ Slattery (24:47)
that role if somebody should drop out, who’s their understudy, right? Who’s gonna be their backup? What other systems do you have in place to support them? What can you do to make sure that they don’t leave? And it’s starting to think through all of the things that really could hurt you in your business and make a plan for it. And all the things that you can’t control, it’s starting to put through what is your fallback for the business. Because for one, you do need that fallback plan. On an X, Y, Z goes down, what’s going to happen?
And for two it’s gonna help your mind a lot to rest and say Okay, this is this my chance that this could happen if it does This is what I’ll do next But knowing that you can see that plan and start to you know, that’s what’s all my company’s called crow’s nest Because you’re up in the crows as you can see things coming you’re looking for obstacles icebergs out in the way But also able to see land opportunities, but the big idea is to through your planning and your systems understanding your business It’s certainly anticipates in these issues
and say, are the biggest things that could really hurt me? Let’s prepare for that. I’m able to see out of the future and have a backup plan if those things rear their head.
Renata (25:53)
Okay. I really love that. And I think it’s important for people to do that exercise that you’ve just mentioned, even when they’re deeply romanticizing their business idea, you know, because being prepared for the risks that it entails is so important. And I know that me personally, I wasn’t very good at doing that.
I strongly recommend people not to follow my advice when it comes to that. But let’s say everything is going well, business is going well. It gets to a point where you start hiring people. mean, you mentioned your brewery had a dozen or more employees. One thing that I like to suggest to people that are looking for work, not people that are trying to.
open their business because I don’t usually talk to them that much, is open up your range. Why are you only looking at the names of the organizations you know by heart? Why aren’t you looking for organizations that you know nothing about, that are maybe smaller or less known than the big brands that you are?
TJ Slattery (27:02)
Mm-hmm.
Renata (27:17)
familiar with, right? And they can be small forever and that’s great too. They will still be great employers, but they can just all of a sudden skyrocket and you didn’t pay attention to them. You didn’t really value what they could offer you as an employer. So that really is part of the coaching that I do is like, okay, you want to work for Facebook?
What else is out there that looks like a job like that? Because you can’t just have one big employer that you’re interested in. But I wanted to hear from… So that’s kind of the misconception that I see in the job market from employees and job candidates that don’t value the wide range of employment opportunities that’s out there.
TJ Slattery (27:53)
You
Renata (28:16)
From your perspective, I’d like to hear from you about other misconceptions that you may have seen in the job market. People that are applying for jobs in small business, in startups. What do you often see that is like, this is so wrong. That’s not how we operate at all.
TJ Slattery (28:36)
Let’s see, the level of guard rails that are up and oversight in larger companies typically does not exist in smaller businesses. Typically they’re looking for the Swiss army knife who can come in and do maybe a couple of jobs or at least one job and they’re a little bit in the other that they can throw in the weeds and have them run at it.
So it’s something to be careful of when you’re in the interview process to make sure that the owner or manager you’re talking with has a really clear idea of what they want you to do for them, which sounds very obvious, but that’s in the larger companies. It’s very spelled out, very tight onboarding process. You know, by week six, you’ll have this accomplished and A, B and C, the employee handbook is extensive. A lot of small businesses won’t have a handbook, which I eagerly coach against all the time. I can’t have an employee handbook.
might not have a handbook, might not have a totally clear idea of what your job’s gonna look like in three or six months. So you need to come in and if you really need that much direction and you’re more of the brain path that’s like I need like a Lego set of instructions that I can follow and I’ll crush it and do every single detail perfectly. That’s what business might have it. So make sure you’re asking those questions back to the interviewer to say, to identify about how much structure is involved in the job before you jump on.
because some small business owners don’t, they kind of don’t appreciate that you might not have the same entrepreneurial mindset that they do, where they’ll throw you into apartment with a title and expect you to just operate as operations manager, but not give you really enough leading time ahead of time to, not leading time, but enough instruction ahead of time to really be successful. So my advice there then is to kind of question the questioner a bit better about what the job entails and how well they have it figured out.
And some owners might have it really well dialed in. But the idea is make sure you do some probing of your own and ensure that you’re going to a place with a solid landing. So you’re not coming in and they’re throwing an apartment at you and expecting you to just flourish. On the other hand, if your mindset and wiring is meant to have very little structure and very little direction that you go and make sense out of chaos, this is the perfect job market for you to go look into. Because as always, entrepreneurs are looking for number two,
Renata (30:33)
Mm.
TJ Slattery (31:03)
that can think the way they do and anticipate different issues without having to delegate everything specifically. So if you’re dialed that way, there’s a huge opening because as entrepreneurs and owners, we need someone that can be proactive and start knocking down tasks because they just see that here’s the vision, we’re all working towards this. I understand what the problems are and I can address those without having my boss have to deal with it.
So there’s two different ways of looking at it. That’s a really fascinating way from a corporate standpoint, if you’ve been in that world for employment going into small business, what to look out for, how to manage it, but then there’s some opportunity there too.
Renata (31:29)
Mm.
I love that. I see that a lot with the work that I do when I’m helping clients that are applying for small businesses. The recruitment process is very more organic and fluid and some of them are not used to it. And it’s quite interesting to see their reactions. So yesterday, for example, we had somebody that said, and they said they weren’t really sure what they were looking for.
And I could see that the candidate, the candidate was a little bit puzzled by that. Let me just close the door. And I said, well, they are a small company. So as they talk to candidates, they will be seeing things that they hadn’t even thought of, you know, like you present a range of experiences that they didn’t even think that they could find. So play to your strengths and.
Tell them about the things that you have done in the past and do your research about them and see how that can transfer into their business. Don’t worry about what’s written in the job ad if they have told you that they’re not really sure what they need. They are probably in a growth phase and they don’t know exactly how to fit the puzzle together again because the puzzle is…
TJ Slattery (32:59)
Mm-hmm.
Renata (33:09)
is growing. And she’s like, yeah, they did mention the growth phase. The other thing that happened with a client who applied to a small business in the UK, we will never forget this, they sent him a position description and he said, Renata, is it just me or this is not for me? mean, this job doesn’t seem to be for me. And I said, no, no, this position is really has nothing to do with you. And he said, look, I’m sorry, I’d love to help, but I actually don’t do this type of work.
And they said, can you can you do the the position description for us then? Can you write it? He was only a candidate. But what had happened was they had a conversation. They saw his LinkedIn profile and they thought, he will be great. Let let us send. Let’s just find a position description and send it to him. And it wasn’t the right one for the type of role. So he wrote his own position description.
and then they hired him. I know.
TJ Slattery (34:11)
my gosh, that’s a brilliant
small business story because I could totally see that happening. It’s like we want the individual because of their experience and personality and skill sets. We don’t know how we’re going to use them yet, but we know we want them. my gosh. Yep. I can see being in that medium like you guys.
Renata (34:25)
Yeah.
And he’s
doing really well. Like he has grown some of the markets that they didn’t have or markets that were struggling. It’s like kind of an international sort of international. I can’t tell you what it is, but they work in the UK. They sell internationally. They weren’t selling in some of the markets that were really important to them.
One of them is the US. don’t know now if they can continue to sell after what Trump has done this morning with his liberation day. But regardless, he’s been able to help them, but I just don’t know that they were ready yet. They knew that they needed somebody like him, but they didn’t know how to… They don’t have an HR. They don’t have human resources and they don’t have…
workplace mobility charts and position descriptions written for them. They probably got something off the web and it wasn’t the suitable one, so that was quite funny. Exactly, something like that.
TJ Slattery (35:34)
Chad GBT wrote that one up. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, this will work.
You know, that’s a really good point you bring up though that I think it’s one of the really beautiful things with small businesses. If you are a talented and creative individual with a good mind for business coming out of the corporate world, your ability to influence the success and the direction of a small business is pretty powerful, depending on where they are on their growth status. Because you think about
the direction that a small business goes is going to be directed and powered by the founder or co-founders and what their strengths are and what they want to do. But if you’re on the initial team of five or 10 people and you’re powerhouse yourself and you’ve given that that much room and flexibility to direct what your job role is going to be, you become a major influence in a company of that size and get to be on the ground floor before they take a launch. So it’s a really exciting place to be. You just got to be comfortable with the level of
uncertainty, flexibility in low structure versus if you’re really tied to having the Lego, you know, set of directions on how to do your job or what to do in your job, you know, just where’s your comfort level. But there’s a lot of room to get into a small organization like that and make a massive impact that really revolves around your talents and desires.
Renata (36:51)
Yeah. I also see a lot of people stepping into smaller organizations and only then realize that it’s more scrappy. You have to get your hands dirty and work vertically sometimes. You’re not going to just sit there in a tiny structure in a small business and only do strategy. I think you have to be more of a jack of all trades.
Do you see, do you feel like that there is some traits or behaviors that small business owners would expect, you know, an employee to have in order to fit into that type of culture?
TJ Slattery (37:38)
I can see a lot of positive and negative things that see with small business owners in that. And one of the things that the experienced ones understand that they are able to integrate in how they manage their employees is that nobody can ever care about this as much as you do. But one of the things that you’re stepping in there is the owners, especially if they’re newer at this, they’re gonna expect their whole team to be as enthusiastic and passionate about it as they are. And that’s not how this works.
You’re the leader, this is as high as the energy and excitement level is gonna go, everyone’s gonna get maximum about here. You have to understand that, and you can’t be mad at your employees because they’re not overzealous about everything happening in the business, they don’t have the same position as you do. So I think when coming in from that role is understand that they might have expectations of you that are well beyond what anybody would put upon you in the corporate world.
Also, the phrase, not my job, doesn’t exist. Depending on where they are, but I’ve had plenty of bartenders load and move kegs or help in the brew house. It doesn’t matter right now, you’re on staff, this is a problem, we need your help. That’s a brewery situation, but just understanding that the owner might see you a bit differently than…
you might be seeing in a corporate world as far as your utility within the business. And that sometimes everyone does have to just pitch in to move that rock a bit further.
Renata (39:06)
Another situation that I have encountered helping people get jobs in small business is very experienced corporate professionals being hired by a startup or a small business because the founder wants to sell the business and they need this person with more of a corporate pedigree to come in and organize things, know, get things.
get the protocols in place and the processes in place and maybe help with the networking as well to get that business sold in three, five years time. I see this happening regularly. What do you think about that? Have you had experience working with founders that wanted to exit?
TJ Slattery (39:58)
That’s a brilliant strategy. It’s actually something that I was considering implementing if I was buying a business. They didn’t already have that person in place. That would be what I would be looking at. Spend some time after acquiring a business, six months to 12 months really in it, but while you’re in it fostering somebody up below you that has management experience that can run it the day to day. But a huge component that I urge my clients on or any small businesses that are looking to sell is to do that exactly what …
what you’re seeing in the market. Because the less involved you are in the business as an owner, the more valuable the business is. Provided you’re not always taking trips out of country with nobody left to manage while you’re gone. But the company has become more valuable because you put somebody in place that once they sell, okay, owner sayonara, but you’ve built a very manageable, easily sustainable turnkey business now that you’re gone.
So for those people who have exited the corporate world, that’s an excellent job to look into because now you become a key man. They’ll probably give you golden handcuffs for the next five years just to stay on in the transition. Everything has been built into you. You’re not tied to the equity in the business. So when the company is sold, you don’t say peace out. You’ve been working towards this point. And now that what they’re really buying apart from, you know, the goodwill and historical profitability of the business is
the people that are in place. And I’ve seen a lot of companies that are like, why can’t I sell for what I want to sell for? And it’s like, because the owner is out still, you know, turning wrenches for the plumbing business. Like, he’s the only master plumber you have on staff, they buy you guys out and that guy’s gone. Like you’re gutted. What instead of what you’ve done is you’ve built a seamless business that’s all systems optimized, you have a professional that’s been there for a few years, your books are looking great.
Renata (41:27)
Mm-hmm.
TJ Slattery (41:50)
You say, okay, when we buy this, yes, Joe is leaving as the owner, but Martha is still here and she’s been clicking for three years, has this thing whipped tight. We’re so excited to work with you, Martha. You’re our number one person in perpetuity. So that’s a great position to find yourself in if you can. It’s just, you need to have the, the integration skills to take it from a little bit messier, like your word, scrappier business into a tighter financial or, business model that
a buyer will look at and say, oh my gosh, this is so neatly done. I’m really excited to be a part of it.
Renata (42:25)
Yes, yes. Yes, now that I think about it, it’s actually very common with my clients to step into a smaller business that is preparing for sale or some sort of big succession planning. Sometimes it’s a family business, but no one wants to inherit it. And then they need somebody else to step in and manage the business. That’s also happening. And it’s a great place to be, as you said, for experienced professionals.
And I’ll give you some examples, professionals that have a finance background, that have worked with merchants and acquisitions in the past. So they might step in as a finance manager. And it’s sad because I also have clients that have been finance managers in small businesses that lost their jobs because they didn’t have that &A experience.
And that’s okay too, I tell them, it’s fine. There will be other businesses that need somebody like you. So I think it’s important for people to understand that businesses go through ups and downs and phases where they might need expertise that you may or may not have. for those willing to get into small business, there is also another example that I think is great where…
small business wanted to be B Corp certified or wanted to make sure that all of the technical teams were operating consistently with a large organization that could be acquiring them in the future. all the ISO certification. So these are the sort of things that a manager stepping into a small business that have that experience from their corporate work can
can sort of plug in and support them. It’s quite common.
TJ Slattery (44:21)
I it’s an extremely valuable skill set to bring to a small business.
Renata (44:28)
Now, as we sort of finish our conversation today, when you look ahead and you look at trends that you foresee in small businesses, what are you seeing? What do you think will be happening in two, three years time in the small businesses where you operate in the United States, for example?
TJ Slattery (44:51)
That’s a really good question. mean, the current trend that I’m seeing that I think is going to only increase or intensify, a lot of private equity is coming in to buy up trades massively. There’s a lot of owners that are in the boomer generation that are looking to retire. And a lot of the Gen Y and millennials
aren’t ready to jump in and take on those trades. so there’s more opportunity if you’re looking to acquire business because those guys are selling. But there’s a lot of competition with PE coming in and seeing if we can buy up not just in the trades but medical. There’s a lot of industries where they’re just kind of swarming in and scooping these up. So I don’t know, we’ll see. That trend continues but without any solid management in place.
eventually those start to break up again. I’ve seen under the hood on some medical practices where like how in the world are you guys still alive? We got acquired a couple of years ago and you’ll hear bit about their management systems and it’s like the private equity guys couldn’t care at all. They just want to pump and dump and then move it on a few years. So there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of room opening up in the market in trades and medical, wherever you’re looking that those guys are buying up because eventually they’ll have to liquidate if they’re not continuing to profit and do the work for their customers.
Renata (46:21)
I 100 % agree. I think that as we get more technology, I mean, you were saying it yourself, you’re trying to fix your sink. And it wasn’t working like you really need those professions to be elevated now because I can go to chat to BT and chat to BT my way out of a few things, but I can’t get it to fix my sink. I can’t get.
you know, it to solve my back issues, you know, I will need a massage, I will need a tradie, I will need, we call them tradies here, if we need an electrician or a plumber, you’re absolutely right. I think that that is something we need to resolve in our minds about where the work is heading and where we need to sort of invest.
as upskilling or reskilling as professionals as well.
TJ Slattery (47:22)
Yep. And their piece, especially if you’re operating a small business or operating inside a small business, start looking now at that business model and plan over the next year, in next five years, and look at your efficiencies now. Don’t wait till it’s six months or 12 months from now for things to start getting tighter. If we are in cusp of a recession or some international trade war,
Renata (47:28)
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
TJ Slattery (47:47)
Don’t wait till it’s suddenly in your face, a massive issue that you need to cut costs, because then you start making rash decisions on cutting systems or people or whatever it is you think has to go in that moment. If you look ahead now and start looking at everything within the business, where can you start cutting back and being efficient? Do that now. If you’re in a nice comfy web, profit-wise, things are looking good, take a second look, get a second opinion, and find ways you can become a bit
skinnier and a bit tighter with your money because it might be strapped down time. And if you’re the owner, that’s something you can focus on. if you’re inside the business in any department, that’s something you can begin looking at and focusing on to help the business to keep it afloat over the next couple of years.
Renata (48:21)
Okay.
Okay. TJ, thank you so much for talking to us today about being a business owner and being a business owner who hires potential former corporate professionals. That’s fantastic. I can’t wait for listeners to listen to this episode and come back with more questions for us to tackle in the future. I will put the link to your business in the episode show notes. So if anybody is…
looking at their redundancy packages and they don’t want to work with me to find a new job. They want to open their own business. They can reach out to you for support and mentoring. And if anybody listening is now thinking, yes, I want a job in a small business, then reach out to me. I’ll help you out. I’ll put you in touch with TJ as well. Thank you so much.
TJ Slattery (49:28)
Thank you so much for having me on today. It’s been such a pleasure.
