Renata (00:51)
In this episode, I’ve had the pleasure of speaking with Victor Pertin, is the founder and chief optimism officer at the Center for Optimism. Victor has had a very diverse career that spans law, politics and international trade. He served as a member of the Victorian Parliament here in Australia for nearly two decades. And then he was the Victorian government’s commissioner to the Americas.
based in San Francisco. When he decided to focus on optimism, Victor interviewed hundreds of people. I believe I may have been one of them. And he authored the book Optimism, The How and Why and founded the Center of Optimism, where he explores the role of optimism in leadership and in personal development.
His work is so important. It emphasizes that infectious optimism is central to effective leadership. One thing that we often forget. It also influences strategy. It influences innovation. The ability of professionals to be resilient in face of diversity and to successfully change jobs.
It is so important to remember that optimism is an important part of the job search strategy. Victor believes that small habit changes can enable you to become infectiously optimistic. And he thinks that this leads you to have a more positive and successful impact in your work and in your life. I said he thinks.
But this is research based, it’s important for you to listen to this episode with an open mind and remember that all of these things can really influence your ability to be successful in your career. In our conversation, we discussed the case for optimism. I became the devil’s advocate, so I also challenged Victor on this. We explored how adopting a
positive outlook can serve as a competitive advantage for professionals, we examine the optimism effect, understanding how a leader’s mindset can influence the team, the organizational culture, and its ability to achieve its goals. I think that everyone will benefit from listening to Victor Pertton today.
He is infectious on his passion for optimism and I believe that listening to him will make your day. It may also change the course of your career. So please listen to this episode. Get back to me. Let me know what you thought of it. Send me a message on LinkedIn. Send me a DM or reply back to my newsletters if you’re a subscriber. If you’re not,
Why aren’t you a subscriber? Please subscribe to my newsletter. You will find a link on the episode show notes and on my website renatabernadi.com. Victor is a subscriber, by the way. I’ll talk to you later. Enjoy this episode.
Renata (04:13)
You’ve been talking about optimism for what? More than a decade now? What made you start working with leaders and organizations about optimism? Where did that come from?
Victor Perton (04:18)
Hmm.
So I had been trade commissioner in North and South America and everywhere I went there was this stereotype of Australians as relentless optimists. The sort of person you would always want to have a beer with after work. The person you would want at your barbecue and it didn’t matter whether it was the chairman of Caterpillar or Alcoa or Eli Lilly or you know the bloke you met on the train.
You know, I love that fastest of euros and down in Columbia and Peru. And so my work was made very easy by that stereotype of relentless optimism. And then after that, I worked on the G20 presidency, know, the most important economic clearinghouse these days. And again, at that super elite level of presidents and prime ministers and finance ministers and central bank governors, it same.
Renata (04:59)
Mm.
Victor Perton (05:26)
Absolutely the same. And then I came back to Australia in 2015 and I was astonished by the negativity of language and especially the negativity of language relating to leadership. And so rather than complain about the complainers, we set up a project called the Australian Leadership Project and we interviewed 2500 people from Bill George at Harvard, the experts at INSEAD to people working on the factory floor. And at the end, as Bill George said,
Australian leadership is pretty good. You got nothing to worry about. And so at the end of the project, we were still left bewildered as to the negativity of language. so six months went by and then I was on the last panel of the Global Integrity Summit. And my eureka moment occurred after three bleak days. The problem was not the problem of leadership. The problem was the problem of pessimism. And, you know, subsequently,
You know, the President of Singapore has said that the biggest public policy issue in the world is the collapse of optimism in the developed world. ever since then, when Helen Clark said, turn that into a book and I will endorse it, almost every day I ask someone, what makes you optimistic?
Renata (06:45)
Are you a natural optimistic person or did you learn to become optimistic?
Victor Perton (06:54)
Good question. Nelson Mandela was asked that question. And he said, don’t, I’m an optimist. I don’t know if it’s nature or nurture. I just know it’s keeping my face to the sun and one foot stepping in front of the other. So I come from a refugee family where, you know, all of the dreadful stories were told with humor, you know, and almost like a joke. And so I have.
As I’ve reflected over the years on what makes me optimistic, I think it’s really three or four generations of people who endured invasion, resisted. My grandfather was tortured to death by the Soviets, my grandmother to the Gulag. And yet after 12 years in the Gulag and decades under Soviet rule.
In the late 80s as the freedom rallies broke out on a walking frame, she was out there and 1991 able to celebrate the fact that she had outlived the dictatorship and outlived communism. And my mother, Simile, she was a refugee twice, widow twice, yoga teacher to the age of 92, still doing her postures, still helping people to be happier and more joyful.
and more content. I think optimism comes from that strong influence of strong women and men in my family. And interesting enough for Anata, yesterday Gallup published a study which replicated what we had found in the leadership study. Most people actually don’t get their inspiration from leaders at work or leaders on TV or leaders in government. Most people find their inspiration at home.
Renata (08:45)
At home, yes, I think Freakonomics, those two economists that have written lots of books, they have already pointed that out as well. It seems like optimism runs in the DNA of your family, considering all the trials and tribulations, you know, your family has gone through generations. And that is…
an amazing story that you have just told. Have you encountered, I mean, you talk about optimism all the time. Have you encountered individuals that were more naturally pessimistic or realistic and work themselves up to become optimistic over time?
Victor Perton (09:31)
Yes, there are many people. the science says optimism is about 25 % genetic. So for most of us, even if you’re born to optimistic parents, you build the skills up. And in fact, the science says you build it up over life. There was a wonderful lady in Australia who died at the age of 107. And the age of 106, she was interviewed on television and asked why she was so optimistic.
She said, well, I look at yesterday, I can’t change it. And whatever I do today, whether it’s good or bad, the sun will rise tomorrow. I spoke at a large real estate conference and I got everyone around the table, around the room to do my optimism superpower exercise where you choose an optimism and write about it. And this fellow said, my parents were so negative. They’d watch the television.
and the prime minister was an idiot and the television commentator was an idiot and the comedians weren’t funny and he said I’m not going to be like them. So he was an optimist and one of the other ladies at the table piped up immediately said that’s me too. So yeah along the way and Viktor Frankl you know the the author of the German Psychotherapist the Holocaust survivor who wrote Man’s Search for Meaning added a chapter to Man’s Search for Meaning called Tragic Optimism.
And that notion that optimism isn’t born from easy times. Optimism comes from the tough times. And Penny Mordant, was the, I don’t know if you watched the coronation of King Charles, but that spectacular lady in the blue gown who carried the sword. You know, for the first time a woman carried the sword at an English coronation. And she said,
The divide in politics today is not between left and right. It’s between the optimists and the pessimists. And we need optimists in these tough times. And you think, I I’ve quoted Mandela, you know, to be optimistic after all he endured. These days we look at Zelensky. Who would have imagined that this little country would have been able to withstand the second or third largest army in the world?
prepared to do anything for victory. And yet, you know, there they are still standing up and you you look at the Ukrainians and you look at the leadership and you say, wow, you know, that’s the ultimate in optimism, you know, tough times again, breed the people who are optimistic and remember, optimism is not Pollyanna. It’s not rose colored glasses. It’s a belief that good things will happen and that
things will work out in the end. And I don’t know if your listeners remember John Lennon, you know, the Beatle, but he was amongst those who said, and if it hasn’t worked out, it’s not the end.
Renata (12:32)
Yes, yes. I think what I’m hearing from you is you may or may not have optimism built into your DNA, but how you nurture yourself over time with the people that surround you. In your case, your amazing family of survivors and that have that amazing grit and optimism was also taught. And you can nurture yourself with the right narrative.
if the world is divided between pessimists and optimists. And even when I think about television and TV shows, know, what do you want to watch at night? Do you want to watch Ted Lasso and nurture that optimism before you go to bed? Or do you want to watch something really grim and dark and nurture that as you go to sleep? I think that those are so
Victor Perton (13:20)
Yeah.
Renata (13:25)
subtle things that you may not think are important, but they will wire your brain in different ways. Would you agree with that?
Victor Perton (13:33)
we live in a toxic swamp of bad news. Steven Pinker, the head of psychology at Harvard, his students did an analysis. In the 1970s, the news was 50-50 good bad. Today, it’s 95 to 98 percent bad. So if you watch the news, you would be sadly misinformed about the state of the world and believe that it is all caught up in violence and
pestilence and the like. And yet we know if we share stories around us, there’s so much good stuff happening. And Bill George, who I quoted earlier, the head of leadership at Harvard Business School, when I asked him what makes him optimistic, he said, being surrounded by positive people. What a blessing. So I think for your listeners, whether they’re preparing for an interview or whether they’re leading a company or leading a section of the company,
It’s who you have your coffee with. You know, when you have a cup of tea in the work kitchen, take a couple of people with you and have a conversation over that cup of tea. But the true trick, and I do it whether I’m walking down the street or walking down the corridor at work, something really simple, Renata, smile and say hello to everyone. Now, there’ll be some people with earpods in their ears and
faces glued to the screen and you might have to lean around and say hi to them. But if you start every interaction with a smile and a friendly greeting, life is good. And just a simple technique that I teach people. In Australia where I live, people start a greeting with, G’day, how are you? Or, G’day, how you going? And the typical answer is,
not bad or not too bad. That’s not unique to Australian English. You you find it in Austrian, German and French and Irish English. But where does not bad or not too bad take you? Absolutely nowhere. So we started these experiments in prison with the interaction between prisoners and warders. And we got them to stop asking, how are you? And to replace it with what’s been the best thing in your day.
Renata, if you try it over the next two or three days, if your listeners try this for the next two or three days, they will find eight out of ten conversations start with an uplift. And you know the lady in my supermarket the other day said, you’re my favorite customer. Every time you’re here, you lift me up. So if people can remember, remember this interaction.
Next time you say hello, how are you? And someone says not bad or not too bad. Think, my God, what a waste of a question. And remember, ask people what’s been the best thing in your day. And you will just be amazed at how much better every day and most conversations become.
Renata (16:30)
you
Victor, I’m going to take up your challenge. I have a few more private coaching consultations today and I’m going to start with that and I’ll let you know, I’ll email you to let you know what happens.
Victor Perton (16:54)
I had a meeting recently with a very senior government official and after she was leaving me, she was going to her planning meeting with her senior execs I said, try something new. At the beginning of the meeting, ask them what has brought them the greatest joy in the last year and what are they optimistic for for the year ahead? And she said it was the best meeting she had ever chaired of that planning meeting.
Renata (17:20)
That’s good to know. The listeners for this podcast. mean, people that are attracted to a podcast called the job hunting made simple, of course, are looking for jobs. They might even have jobs, but they’re job searching anyway. And what I have found through my coaching is that there are two powers at play. One is an optimism bias and that is.
There’s always good and bad things with everything and the optimist bias is the one that says I’m going to get a job fast. You know, it will take me three months. I know it took Mary and John 12 months or 10 months, but I’m different. It’s what happens when we watch the TV show. my gosh, now I forgot the grand designs. You’ve watched grand designs? Yes.
Victor Perton (18:13)
have, I have.
Renata (18:14)
It’s always the same story. He visits a couple or a person and they’re renovating a house and they say, it’s going to be ready by Christmas, six months max, and we’re going to spend 500,000 pounds. And then he comes back three years later, the house is still not built and they’ve spent over a million. So there’s that optimism bias that is at play when you’re embarking on a project where you don’t know how to forecast. You don’t have foresight.
But there is also another power at play, which is the fear instinct, the instinct that makes you anxious because you’re running out of money. Your savings is getting depleted. You need to pay the bills and you still don’t have a job. And those two pedals, you know, are there and it makes people really stressed and overwhelmed. In that situation, what do you think?
professionals can do in order to be successful in their job search and get a job that will make them happy.
Victor Perton (19:21)
The optimism bias is a very powerful tool to be harnessed. And when you think of grand designs, it’s not the optimism that defeats people, it’s the lack of reality or the lack of professionalism or the lack of planning or the lack of talent. And occasionally on grand designs, there’s a house finished almost on time. And he wanders around thinking how spectacular that is.
So, so optimism and particularly optimism related to innovation. So when you think of grand designs, most of the houses are very innovative. Innovation requires optimism. You you think of Dyson, the vacuum cleaner guy, you know, he says there were 5,000 iterations of the bagless vacuum cleaner before he achieved success. And so when I go back to my own childhood, or youth, you know, when I left university and I applied for my first job as a lawyer, I sent out,
100 applications. I received no reply from 50 of them. I went to 25 interviews, 24 of which I didn’t get the job. So for me, I was very fortunate right up there at the beginning to have that period of really give my best for this interview. Someone was better or I wasn’t the right fit.
So I think for the job interview person, you’ve got to have people around you like me, who can say, I’ve had the most magnificent career, I’m now in my 60s, and I started with 24 rejections. So I think that’s clear. Then coming back to the power of optimism, Gallup, the research institute, published a study yesterday on what followers want.
what followers want, and you know what followers want? They want positive, optimistic leaders who look for the future. And the leader looks like the person in your mirror. If your listeners want some fun, whether they’re in work or looking for work, let them grab some lipstick or let them grab a pen and write on the mirror that the leader looks like the person in your mirror. So you walk into an interview.
well-prepared, realistic, knowing the people you’re meeting, having good practiced answers. So to work with someone like you, Renata, on, know, these are the tough questions you could get, these are the easy questions you might get, how do you excel? So I think the optimist says, I’m gonna have a real crack at this, and I’m gonna do my best.
The optimist also accepts failure on those times they don’t win the job and say, what can I learn from it? What can I do better next time? And I teach a course called Great Public Policy to the Australian Public Service. And I think that there’s a couple of tools that would be very good for your listeners and you might even want with your coaching ones. One is called issues mapping. know, we use a big white board and here’s the opening question, you know, what are they likely to ask me?
And you know, have five options and then five options off that and five options on that. And the other one I really like is project deconstruction. So to actually look at the job, think about what the issues could be, think about what these people are going to ask me, what I need. Optimism is realism and realists are optimistic. It’s pessimists who are unrealistic.
And sadly, pessimism is so fashionable these days.
Renata (23:14)
Yes, I love, love, love your answer because you’re absolutely right with the right planning and the right structure in place. You can really take that optimism bias and run with it and be successful with it. Now, the other situation that comes up frequently in this recruitment and selection process that my listeners go through is they are well prepared. They go with the best possible
mindset for job interviews. They are at the final two and they don’t get the job. Right. And that is a real shock to the system because they have been encouraged throughout that process by the recruiters or whoever they were meeting with being very well received, you know, and having good feedback along the way. it’s very hard for them.
to overcome the disappointment of not getting the job at the tail end of the process. What does optimism has to do with the resiliency that you need to bounce back from that grief, from that disappointment and go at it again and again?
Victor Perton (24:29)
So number one, they need to know that the recruiter’s job, as well as finding the right person, is to find a competitive field. So the people who are selecting the person for the job will typically have two or three or four or even 10 people who can do the job. And so missing out on the job in that context is a natural thing. I’m involved in one at the moment.
been involved in. I still remember there was a job and that one of the candidates was this leading person in the field and afterwards she said why didn’t I get the job? And I said well I can’t hear you now over the table. You she got herself into such a system of speaking of quietness that you couldn’t hear across the table. So she, the person who won the job was also a woman.
but she was one who could take over the conversation. So, but when we come back to your exact question, I’ve done my best and I thought I was right and I didn’t get the job. It’s a natural part of life. You know, we all have grief, whether it’s illness or job or business failure, or just imagine the people in Gaza or the people in Ukraine or the people in Sudan now, you know, whose businesses are blown up and the like.
In some senses, it’s the same sort of grief instinct. And so the optimist, what you need to do is you need to reflect on it. But most importantly, get your girlfriends, get your boyfriends, get your friends together and just sit together. Just sit with the people who are positive in your lives. And I did this for a tax department for a small country and they got me to come and…
do some sessions on optimistic leadership. And I think the most important thing I did for them was to create two groups of ambassadors of optimism, who still two years later get together for coffee and to restore themselves and to stay strong. So if the best number one, it’s surround yourself with the right people and the right people, whether you’re in success or the right people, whether you’re in trouble. I think that’s the number one.
The number two is go for a walk. And one of the loveliest tools, the science is very strong on this, is maybe that’s the time to do my best self. So my best self is a wonderful exercise where for about, five or 10 minutes, you imagine yourself in five years time. So if you were going to do it today, it would be five years time, 2030, the same date.
Think about it, think where would I like to be? What job would I like to be in? If I’m having lunch or dinner that day, who would I like around the table? What will I cook or what would I like to buy in a restaurant? And then you spend 10 minutes writing a diary of that day. So it’s a forward diary. And then go for a walk. the science says that that thought pattern will come back into your head.
time and time again. And I did it for a chamber of commerce Renata and there were 65 people and up until that point I’d always done it as an individual exercise. But they said, we’d like to do this together. So 64 out of the 65 shared a bit of that diary of five years hence, and there was laughter and joy. And someone said, oh look, I’m going to have sold my business and I’m going to be in Tahiti. And someone said,
I’m going to be in Tahiti with you. Two years later, a number of these things have already come true. And so I think for people, when you’ve had that disappointment, it’s time then to look to the future. you know, I mean, there’s all sorts of beliefs in manifestation and the like, and you can believe that or not believe that. However, there is a wonderful guy called David Cooper Ryder who
with a group of others created a concept called appreciative inquiry. And he said that what a nation asks questions about is the direction that nation will go in. So too the person and you mentioned fear earlier Renata. One of my friends is John Hagel who ran the Deloitte Center for the Edge for many years and wrote a book after COVID called The Journey Beyond Fear.
And John’s like you, Renata. He asks questions and in asking the questions in the journey of the explorer, you create new knowledge. And I think as your listeners, you know, thinking, gosh, you know, I’m using AI now for my job applications and I’m using AI to help write that application. Well, don’t forget your competitors are also using AI to write that application and to write the CV.
And John writes about the white space between us and AI. And that white space is our ability to create new knowledge. So whether you’re going to an interview or whether you’ve come back defeated from a job process, it’s time for you to create new knowledge, to put something on LinkedIn where people say, wow, that’s interesting. And it could be one paragraph or another.
Renata (30:12)
Yeah.
Victor Perton (30:15)
But what you want to be is interesting and optimistic, not defeated and pessimistic.
Renata (30:24)
Do you sometimes get pushback from people saying, well, but isn’t there a place for pessimism? we’re, you know, living in a world where bad things can happen, how do you react? I mean, does that happen to you when you’re presenting or working with people? What’s your answer to that?
Victor Perton (30:44)
Hmm. Yeah, yeah. And people say, oh, you’ve
got to have pessimists at the table. You know, you need a balance. Well, just think of an innovative process or a new ideas process and someone leaning at the table, just waiting to say, but just waiting to say, but, and just waiting to make themselves sound cleverer than you, because they’re good at demolishing stuff. know, I, if you’re critical analysis, why do
teenagers no longer read books because in year 10 and 11 and 12 they’ve got to deconstruct the book rather than read it and enjoy it. There’s a billionaire in Australia and his chief of staff told me he will not have a pessimist at the table. Right. He says he can buy them for a thousand dollars an hour from law firms and accounting firms. So my view is you will have to spend time with pessimists and they might be in your family. Right. They might be in your friend group.
And you know, probably 40 % of the world’s population is pessimistic. So, you know, they are going to be working with you. So when you can choose the people you work with, have the optimists, and then, you know, when you’re doing the deconstruction process or you’re doing the testing or you’re doing the risk analysis, that’s when you bring those people in and commercial lawyers just by their training.
tend to be more pessimistic than optimistic. Risk managers tend to be more pessimistic than optimistic. I’ve had to work really hard in one of the companies that I work in where we now have a balanced risk register. And for every risk, there’s an opportunity. And I still remember the risk manager coming to me after four years and saying, Victor, you will really love this new risk register. There’s blue for opportunity.
So I think for we optimists, remember what I said earlier, optimism is realism. The world is in constant progress. Just think women’s lifespan. The turn of the 19th century, the average woman died before the age of 50. Today in my country, Australia, the average woman lives to 88. The average bloke lives to 86 in good physical health. And so this constant progress.
But when you watch the news, you would think everyone’s getting mud, you know, by some hooligan with a machete or, you know, that every road has some kid who’s stolen a car and driven at 200 kilometers an hour. Now, there’s a risk, you know, if I’m running a trucking business or whatever, you know, when I’m doing my risk analysis, I do have to work out there’s going to be people driving on methamphetamine and cocaine and party drugs. And, you know, there are going to be people who will step out in front of a truck or a train.
you know, for all sorts of reasons of their own mental health. So you need to be realistic in risk assessment, but you’re never going to advance unless you’re optimistic. You know, you can’t be a good leader. As Gallup says, you can’t be a good leader unless you’re optimistic. You can’t do strategy unless it’s optimistic. Who can write a strategy that’s pessimistic and, you know, make it make sense to anyone? Innovation, pessimists can’t innovate. And as as
Victor Frankl and all sorts of other people, John McCain, you know, who ran for the American presidency showed us you can’t be resilient unless you’re optimistic, because how would you persist unless you believe that things will get better as a result of persistence? So it is the lifeblood of the 2020s. And it is the lifeblood for the tough times. You know, when you didn’t win the job.
You know, when your business went bad, when you got retrenched, that’s when you need optimism. You don’t need optimism for the easy time.
Renata (34:44)
Yes, all right. We both seem to have, we come from the same coaching DNA, appreciative inquiry, positive psychology. We share very similar values and philosophies, Victor. I would love for you to talk to the pessimists that are listening to this episode today, because I find it very interesting. It seems that you…
done a law degree, right? Because you were saying that your first job was a lawyer. And you probably know this, but a lot of law students, according to research, chose law because they were naturally more pessimistic. And that happens with medical students, dentistry, law, some people in accounting and management that…
then become company secretaries, people that work in governance, as you mentioned, and so forth. Is it worth you finding out if you are more inclined to be pessimistic and optimistic by, for example, doing an assessment like the one in the University of Philadelphia’s website, Authentic Leadership? No, what’s the name of the website? Doesn’t matter. I’ll put the link in the episode show notes.
If anyone is interested, it’s free. It’s the University of Philadelphia’s psychology department. They have lots of assessments you can do. One of them is to find out if you’re optimistic or pessimistic. Do you think it’s worth finding out? Or do you think it’s better to just assume it and work on that mindset so that you are not worried about the outcome of the assessment per se
and more in your professional development and working on that to become more optimistic. What do you think?
Victor Perton (36:48)
I wouldn’t bother. I wouldn’t bother. Of most of these psychometric tests, we can all game a psychometric test and we know what answers are gonna get the right sort of answer. No, I would start, for your listeners, with asking yourself what makes you optimistic, right? So in fact, during a speech once, the chairman of the meeting said, I’m a pessimist. And I turned back to him and said, well, just share a positive story. And he rang me two weeks later.
Renata (36:50)
Yeah, yeah, I thought you would say that.
Mmm.
Victor Perton (37:18)
And he said, look, I don’t think I’m such a pessimist. Or I was door knocking a whole town and this old bloke stopped me in the street and he said, I’m a pessimist and gave the reasons. And then he laughed and said, no, I’m really optimistic. I would get them to do the exercise, what makes me optimistic? And we’ve got a little quiz online, a little survey monkey one. The next one I would do is my optimism superpower and pick an optimism, even if it’s cautious optimism or
Renata (37:42)
Mm.
Victor Perton (37:48)
reasonable optimism or realistic optimism and write a paragraph on how that appears in your life. And then the third thing I would do is that exercise my best self. Right? Just as I said, if you drink whiskey or you drink wine or you drink beer or you drink kombucha or herbal tea, take a drink and just imagine yourself in five years time.
and write that. And then the other exercise, I know you do it Renata. Yeah, we don’t do it every day, but at end of the day, when you’re in your pajamas or you’re nightie, just write down in a little journal or a piece of paper, what are the three best things that happened in the day? And they don’t need to be saving the world. You know, it be, had a really good latte or a cappuccino or my teenage daughter smiled at me in the morning or whatever. And the trick with it,
is in the morning not to wake up to the news or an alarm, but whether you’re sitting on the toilet or you’re having a cup of tea or coffee, read what you wrote about yesterday. And the University of Pennsylvania, know, which is the lead authority on this, but many other universities have replicated this. It is so powerful. So if I was a pessimist, I would just try a few of these exercises to get a little bit of the superpower of optimism.
Still have your strengths that you believe you have as a pessimist, but learn a little bit about the other side. What are those secrets those bloody optimists are using to get ahead and be more successful?
Renata (39:30)
I’ve just explained these things to a client just now, just before we hopped on this conversation. And, and I explained to her that we can develop these things as if they were muscles, right? So you have very strong muscles. Let’s say upper body is fine, but your legs need work. You go to the gym and you work on them. And the same can be done with optimism. You can work on it and strengthen it.
and there’s a good, there’s your book that I will put the link below so people can find out more. There’s also learned optimism. If people want to become optimists, they probably should invest in the two books. And I think that that would be a fantastic way to initiate a practice and stick to it. Don’t give up, you know? And the thing about all of these words that we’re talking about, optimism, pessimism,
resiliency, that they’re all intertwined and for you to see them evolving over time, you need time. You need to think of yourself one year from now, not tomorrow or the day after. You need time to develop that.
Victor Perton (40:44)
Renata, though I would say to your listeners, try that experiment that Renata has promised to do. And that is greeting someone, say, what’s been the best thing? The other day I walked into a university, I was going to be giving a speech and the lady at reception said, how are you? And I said, I feel wonderful. I’m exceptional. Thank you for asking. Tell me what’s been the best thing in your day. And her five colleagues who were in that all including her boss all looked up.
Renata (40:47)
Yeah.
that today.
Victor Perton (41:14)
And the boss said, gosh, that’s a good question. It’s so powerful. If people just try it for the next four or five days and you’ll slip back into other greetings, the more you try it, the more powerful you become. And then what’s funny is people start asking you before you ask them.
Renata (41:17)
you
Yeah.
Yes, that’s awesome. That’s when you know you converted them. Well done.
Victor Perton (41:35)
So what’s the best thing in your day? Yeah. And let
them tell you, let them send a message to you, Renata, to say, that wacko idea of asking people about the best thing in your day has really worked. Sometimes I use a variation. Sometimes I say, what’s brought you joy? Last night I had dinner with a queen and two princesses of Bhutan, of course, and they have the World Center for Happiness.
What’s interesting is that the Bhutanese definition of happiness is more like contentment, is more like optimism. So it was a, for me, it was a wonderful thing. am. And in fact, you see, I’m in orange. The princess had the same orange on too. So color to color people could get that hint. Tommy Hilfiger, you know, the U.S. designer visited Melbourne and Melbourne women wear black and your black is Melbourne orange.
And he said, just wear a little bit of yellow or orange, just as you’ve got the necklace there. Something that a little yellow or orange, people’s eyes turn. And even the other day I was wearing, my children have black banded, I have Samoan shirts. And I was walking down the street with my Samoan shirt, because my children wouldn’t see me. And the lady just stopped me in the street. And she said, I love the color of that shirt.
Renata (42:45)
Yes.
I have a lot of color in my room as you can see if if people are watching on YouTube you’re already familiar with my color my colorful house Victor it has been an absolute pleasure to interview you I think this is long overdue because our paths often cross usually on LinkedIn these days but in real life in the past and I’ve always admired your commitment to optimism and how you walk the talk
more than anyone else I’ve ever met. You are the walking optimistic person out there and you have developed a way of explaining it that’s so easy to understand and easy to apply. So well done. When I grow up, I want to be just like you with my career coaching and my job hunting ideas, of course, because I think you have…
optimism down pack. That’s your niche for sure. Thank you so much for coming on board. Do you have any final advice or words of wisdom to share with the listeners that are looking for jobs this year?
Victor Perton (44:10)
Yeah. So number one, go into that job interview optimistic and really well prepared. Issues mapping, mind mapping, deconstruction, all the tools to give you the advantage. When you walk into the interview, don’t say, how are you? Say to the interviewer, what’s been the best thing in your day? It will intrigue them. It will intrigue them.
In fact, yesterday I was on the bus, Renata, and there was a lady there who was heading off for a job interview. And we had that wonderful conversation. And then I think in the long term and to be sustainable, gratitude, right? Whether it’s the bus driver or the tram driver or the barista, you know, if you’ve had dinner in a restaurant and the kitchen is slightly open, lean your head in and thank the chef or the cooks, you know, just more thank you.
And then try those deeper techniques that Renata and I would recommend to you. The my best self and do that every three months or so. And then that optimism superpower, which is just a lot of fun. You know, we’ve got nearly 200 different types of optimism on our website. And if you pick one of those, Renata, you know what I am. I’m a radical optimist, but my gender pronouns are Pollyanna optimist.
Renata (45:34)
Hahaha
Victor Perton (45:36)
Because I love that notion of no matter how much trouble you’re in, Pollyanna says, can we find a light at the end of the tunnel? So Pollyanna is often gets about, actually homework for everyone. Boys and girls read Pollyanna and watch the 1960 film with Hayley Mills. Because Pollyanna doesn’t matter how much trouble she gets in and how bad life gets, she knows there’s a light at the end of the tunnel.
Renata (45:49)
Read the Read the book.
Yes, I’m a Pollyanna too, Victor. So thank you so much once again. It’s been a pleasure.
Victor Perton (46:11)
Thank you, Renata.
