Natasha Silveira (00:00.136)
the marketing person for us so she I don’t know how she found you yeah
Renata (00:03.734)
Mm -hmm.
good, good. No, I’m glad she did. I hardly ever interview anybody from Melbourne. So it’s good to interview somebody from Melbourne. I actually have this goal for next year, 2025, to actually do a proper studio here at home so I can have people from Melbourne come to my house and we can record it here. I think it’s nicer than doing it on, you know, on Riverside.
Natasha Silveira (00:28.93)
Wow. Yeah.
Renata (00:34.284)
This is great too, like a lot of podcasts are recorded on Riverside, so it should be fine. I’m in the Bayside area in Mordialic Beach. How about you? CBG? okay. All right. You would have to come down here, but if it’s a summer day, it’s nice. You don’t want to be here in winter. boy. Now, I have so many questions for you, Natasha, but I’d like to ask…
Natasha Silveira (00:39.178)
Whereabouts are you located?
Natasha Silveira (00:44.692)
okay. CBD. Yeah. Yeah.
Natasha Silveira (00:53.076)
I know.
Renata (01:04.364)
how you ended up doing what you’re doing today. Why don’t you take us on a little origin story for your company?
Natasha Silveira (01:15.822)
Great, yep. So I used to work in -house corporate. I started with HR operations and just stuck in HR operations. And as I moved companies, there was a bit of…
recruitment and there was a bit of payroll stuff that I did so I’ve worked in retail, manufacturing, mining, FMCG, so across different sectors.
Renata (01:43.413)
Mm -hmm.
Was it always in human resources? Yeah, okay.
Natasha Silveira (01:48.374)
Yeah, Originally, when I first got out of uni, I did hospitality for two years. So I worked at the Sheraton, which is now the Langham, and the Marriott and the Stamford Plaza before I fell into HR.
Renata (02:02.827)
Yeah.
Renata (02:08.514)
Mm -hmm.
Natasha Silveira (02:15.714)
The reason I started the consulting is because I had a lot of friends who had their own businesses and a lot of friends who would job hunt and it’d be like, can you just review our employment contract? Or can you tell me a little bit about this process? How do I manage it as a business owner? And then from the employee side, I’d get a lot of friends ask me to just go over the resume and help them with interview tips.
And I was like, so I’ve got some sort of a base. Why don’t I look at consulting? And initially when I started, I wanted to do it as outsourced consulting for small to medium sized businesses. That was the original model.
But given I’d come from corporate, then a lot of my old managers would reach out and say, you know, I’ve got this project. Can you help out for a few months or a couple of weeks? And as the project started coming in, I started recruiting my own team. And now we’re a team of 11, which is amazing. Thank you.
Renata (03:13.239)
Thank
Renata (03:27.136)
Wow, congratulations. Were you always entrepreneurial? Do you find it easy to market yourself?
Natasha Silveira (03:36.714)
I was, so when I worked hospitality and initially I used to run clubs, club nights in the CBD. So I had my own event company. And then as I started to get out of events and more corporate, the timings became really hard because I’d work Monday to Friday and then on the weekends I was still trying to run this events company of mine and it got quite hard to manage.
Renata (03:44.873)
huh.
Natasha Silveira (04:06.608)
So I gave that up, went back full time in the corporate and then this opportunity came up and it just started. It wasn’t something that I planned in the long run.
term, but I had the support of one of my really good friends from uni and he’s a migration consultant. So he started his from scratch and he’d always encouraged me to do something on my own. So he was quite helpful in getting everything set up and I’d go to him for advice and stuff. So that’s how I landed here.
Renata (04:20.769)
in.
Renata (04:44.276)
Okay, that’s so interesting. Before we continue, I need to ask you about the camera because the image for me is coming super blurry, but are you seeing your image well? Because if you are, it should be fine at the end. Okay, then it’s just an internet thing. It’s fine because it’s been recording on your side of, on your computer and I will get a better image in the end. So that’s fine. All right, so let’s go back to your business.
Natasha Silveira (04:56.738)
Yeah.
Renata (05:13.942)
So you’re saying that you didn’t plan to have this consulting or at least not sort of super long term. How did you make that transition? Did you get a redundancy package and then bootstrap yourself or did you sort of you were thinking about it as you were doing your last corporate job? I mean, I’m very curious because so many people think about having a consultancy and never actually do. So I…
Natasha Silveira (05:34.744)
Thank you.
Natasha Silveira (05:41.955)
Yep.
Renata (05:42.698)
would really hope that you could share how you did it.
Natasha Silveira (05:45.358)
So when I first started, I started the consulting in 2018 and that was just using whatever savings I had. So that was about $10 ,000 at that time. And I did it.
Renata (05:50.209)
Okay.
Renata (05:58.174)
We started at the same time, by the way, so yeah.
Natasha Silveira (06:03.325)
nice. And I still had my corporate job and I thought, know, because I’m targeting small to medium businesses, let me try and figure out marketing website. So I’d sit on the weekends and try and do some of it, but corporate was so busy and at that time I was working in mining. So there was a lot of travel involved. But my manager at that time, she was very, very supportive of, know, you’re trying to do
this and you know if once you’ve decided what you want to do whatever like help and support you need Shubh is there and mind you not a lot of managers are like that you don’t get the yeah
Renata (06:42.518)
Okay.
Renata (06:48.146)
No, I wouldn’t even recommend telling your manager. I was just thinking about that.
Natasha Silveira (06:55.47)
And then just before COVID hit or during, well, just as it hit in March, I got a redundancy in May and the job market was pretty slow at the time. And I thought, why not use my redundancy to just support myself for the next few months till either the market picks up or, you know, I’ve got a baseline with the consulting to decide whether it is something I want to do or not.
And so I stopped job hunting. then towards the end of 2019, one of my old managers from one of the F7CGs I worked at, they had a project that they wanted. It was a transformation project.
So I joined onto the project and the one thing I asked them was, would you be willing to pay me on ABN because I’m trying to do this? And the director, HR director, she told her manager, just give her whatever she wants because she is a quiet achiever and she’ll get the work done. But you know, if that’s her only hesitation, whether she gets it on ABN or TFRN, just do whatever she needs.
Renata (07:55.446)
Yeah.
Renata (08:06.091)
Okay.
Renata (08:16.384)
Yeah, excellent.
Natasha Silveira (08:16.752)
And that was really good because I was still getting a salary and that helped me reinvest some of the money into the business. And that was a big boost for me to get up and running.
Renata (08:26.881)
and home.
Yeah, that’s such a common story. It happened with me as well that my first client was my former employer. And I think that that is, you know, a great way of working on your lower hanging fruit to start your business and then expand through word of mouth and marketing to a wider net of clients. So well done. For those of you overseas who don’t know what ABNTFN is, it’s the
Natasha is saying she was paid as a business and not as an employee. So that’s what it means. So that’s interesting. moving forward to now, September 2024, what are you seeing employers come to you for help? Because I think there’s so much has happened post pandemic with workplaces going hybrid and remote with employer employees.
Natasha Silveira (09:22.488)
Yep.
Renata (09:26.528)
changing their minds about what their ambitions are and what their interests are and I’m wondering if that has reflected in the sort of consulting that you do.
Natasha Silveira (09:26.744)
you
Yep.
Natasha Silveira (09:38.624)
Yeah, absolutely it has. So a lot of employers that we work with either come to us because their team has gone through a major restructure. So with a lot of the restructures, what happened during COVID is there was a lack of talent. So the talent that was in the market started demanding high salaries.
Fast forward to now, businesses are sort of getting back on track, borders are open, you’ve got more talent flooding the market, and suddenly you’ve got all this headcount that you thought you needed, that you don’t need anymore. So a lot of businesses, or corporates especially, come to us to help with the redundancies as an outsource provider. So we give them independent advice on their structures and whether the processes are robust and work, and will work for the longer term.
The other flip side is the businesses have already gone through redundancy and suddenly they’ve gone from a headcount of 10 where there were ample people to do the work to a headcount of three or four but the work’s still the same. So they haven’t gone through that transformation process where they’ve really looked at their processes and systems and ways of working to determine whether that headcount of three will even
Renata (10:55.753)
Mm.
Natasha Silveira (11:08.805)
be sufficient to get the work done. So a lot of overflow work comes to us. in a way it’s good because it helps them scale up or down. you know, they could have us for a month, get some of the work done and then they don’t need us anymore. And the following year, you know, if there are cyclical events, we just come in and out of the business. Whereas for a permanent head count, it’s quite disruptive to have
Renata (11:27.542)
Right.
Natasha Silveira (11:38.465)
a lot of that change happening every year.
Renata (11:40.834)
Yeah. You know, Natasha, just half an hour before we started recording, a recruiter called me. He’s been trying to reach me for a couple of days. And it was to ask how are things going with my business? And the reason why he’s asking is things are not going so well for recruitment firms, right? 2024 recruitment firms are going through a very different year from previous years where
employers were seeking out talent like you said and they were advertising roles. Now they’re shrinking and they’re restructuring. They’re using your services more than recruitment services. So I wanted to know from your perspective, what are the biggest challenges now for your clients? What is top of mind and what do you think will be trending in the months ahead? Let’s say the next six months for your clients.
Natasha Silveira (12:39.619)
I think managing resistance to change and that is across the board for you know amongst the team members. A lot of times with the C -suite
level there isn’t clear communication or know transparency about the process. They don’t engage properly so I think that’s another challenge that then your frontline leaders face because they don’t have that clear communication or they haven’t been engaged with what the changes are so they can’t communicate that with their team and it’s just a flow down effect.
So I think that’s another one. then just organizing or aligning workforce goals with the organizational goals. for an HR team, their goals might be completely different to the organizational goals because
they have a list of things that they need to get done. But does that really align with the organization and it needs to be almost like a top down and bottom, sorry, top down and bottom up sort of alliance to get it just right? Most of the time you see it’s always top down. So the bottom part is just getting told what to do. Whereas they’ve already got a whole list of things.
Renata (14:07.061)
Mm.
Natasha Silveira (14:11.03)
where does that priority lie? So I think it needs to be a mixture of both. And I think that will ease out a lot of the challenges that leaders face or the senior execs face at this point in time.
Renata (14:15.543)
Yeah.
Renata (14:26.678)
When you mention communications, I mean, you’ve worked in so many large organizations before having your own consultancy. Do you think it’s different, the communications issues now in a hybrid or remote environment than it was before? Or is it just the same and it’s still affecting the way that we do business?
Natasha Silveira (14:48.972)
I think it’s two prongs. So from a business perspective, we work remotely unless we are asked to go onto a client site. So with us, we try and communicate more with client or we’re following up more with the client. the communication is usually.
know, customer centric for us. Whereas from the client side, you know, there’ll be weeks where we’re following stuff up and you won’t hear anything because they’re so tied down with their internal priorities and deliverables that they don’t really, the projects that we’re working on take a back seat. In terms of internal communication, I think,
Honestly, nothing has changed a lot. you know, looking at all the transformation projects and stuff, getting external consultants in really helps because you know, you’re letting that focus sit on the consultant to do that communication piece and that’s just completely their focus. So the consultant isn’t trying to juggle their day job and going through a transformational change for the company. So I think that way,
that helps, but not a lot of businesses want to engage for someone external to do that.
Renata (16:11.795)
That’s so interesting that you said that. The reason why I ask is because I’m always challenging my clients when I’m doing executive coaching, when they complain about remote work and that they can’t see their employees. And I’m like, I don’t think things were that good in the past. It’s like when we compare what we have today and have a romantic view of our past. it was so much better in the past. And I’m like, was it? Not really that sure.
Natasha Silveira (16:35.032)
Yes.
Natasha Silveira (16:39.393)
You
Renata (16:40.61)
So, yeah.
Natasha Silveira (16:40.654)
Well, you see people putting in more hours with remote work. But on the flip side, do understand with… It’s easy for the hybrid model to work for corporates, but for small businesses or medium businesses, like, for example, it’s really hard to maintain that level of engagement or work as a team if you’re only 10 people and everyone’s remote. So I think it worked during COVID.
Renata (16:45.213)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Renata (16:58.434)
Okay.
Renata (17:08.352)
Yeah.
Natasha Silveira (17:10.608)
But there is some sense of engagement that comes from being in front of each other face to face.
Renata (17:18.804)
Yes, yes, it be interesting to see next year when the new policy at Amazon is enforced and everybody needs to go back to the office. And I’m feeling very challenged because just two weeks ago, I was speaking at a roundtable here in Melbourne about hybrid and remote teams and how to lead them, et cetera. And I basically told everybody there that this is the future, that we’re not going back to full time.
Natasha Silveira (17:25.762)
Yeah. Come in.
Natasha Silveira (17:47.672)
You
Renata (17:47.978)
working in the office and then the next thing you know Amazon announces that everybody’s coming back. now challenge accepted. Like I’m very keen to see what happens next. We’ll see.
Natasha Silveira (17:57.784)
What Happens in Seattle?
In a way, I’d say it’s good for the economy as well because you know with hybrid working, like my office is in the city and it’s dead most days and you know the businesses, local businesses, offer the cafes and the restaurants where people used to be out and about like lunchtime or after work drinks and suddenly it’s all dead so there is a ripple on effect to the economy as well with hybrid.
Renata (18:04.225)
Yeah.
Renata (18:11.692)
Yeah.
Renata (18:27.18)
But Natasha, just come to Mordialloc, my friend. The business here is booming. Everybody’s working from home. So the neighbourhood, the suburbs are all doing really well. Thank you very much. All right. Look, I want to talk to you about the restructures that you’re involved in. I work with outplacement, so I do outplacement, if you ever, you know, we should talk about this some other time.
Natasha Silveira (18:30.348)
Yeah, because everyone’s working from home.
Natasha Silveira (18:46.648)
Mm -hmm.
Natasha Silveira (18:54.882)
Yeah, definitely.
Renata (18:57.494)
But it’s varied the feedback that I get from my outplacement clients. Some come with me feeling quite informed and secure and well taken care of. Others come traumatized by their experience. They didn’t see it coming. They didn’t think it was handled well. I know that there is variance as well in how people take things and their personalities and
and traits will affect their perceptions. But I also think that there are a lot of cases where things are not really handled well. I would love to hear from you, for those that are listening that have the power of implementing better practices for restructures and redundancies, what they can do to make that process better for the employee that’s losing their jobs.
Natasha Silveira (19:52.846)
As I said before, being transparent about the process and being
think it’s better to over communicate these things than under. And empathy, I think, is key. A lot of managers that are going through the process, they’re going through their own change and they’re going through their own emotions. So at that point in time, being empathetic to someone else going through the same change, I think, is really hard. I think they need to really focus in on, I know what I’m feeling because I’m going through.
that but
My team member needs extra support because they’re going through the same thing. So it’s vice versa. being able to offer support to the effective employees, ensuring communication lines are open for those even remaining, because there’s another impact that a lot of people forget for the team members that stay on. There’s a lot of uncertainty, like who’s going to take on this extra amount of work,
Renata (20:59.5)
you
Natasha Silveira (21:04.472)
or why is there such a reduction in headcount? So preserving the morale for the people remaining, reinforcing the company’s mission, values throughout this entire process, I think helps both remaining and exiting employees.
Renata (21:26.776)
I’m also thinking as you’re answering this question, I was thinking about the situations right now. We have Telstra, big telecommunication organization in Australia that announced the redundancy, you know, months before. In the past, we’ve had Toyota do this. We had NAB many times during this, NBN.
Natasha Silveira (21:34.094)
Mm.
Natasha Silveira (21:42.082)
Yep.
Natasha Silveira (21:47.128)
Mm.
Renata (21:51.074)
one way of doing it and it allows for the outplacement and the consultation and the exit to be sort of handled quite slowly. But then there are situations where you just find out the day of. Right. Can you explain to the listener what’s the difference and why those different approaches? What’s the reasoning behind it?
Natasha Silveira (22:04.046)
Yep.
Natasha Silveira (22:10.508)
approaches.
Natasha Silveira (22:14.174)
So with, for example, if I look at Telstra, know, they gave quite a lot of notice and they had that whole consultation process, affected employees. Like I have a friend who got a redundancy from Telstra and she was excited. It was like, I’m going to take the rest of the year off and then in the new year figure out what I want to do. It gave those affected people time to plan. So it wasn’t a shock. Usually when people
Renata (22:41.058)
.
Natasha Silveira (22:43.258)
take it negatively it’s because the company has just walked someone out and said your is redundant and we’re going to pay out your notice. Usually they do it when there’s risk involved with the role.
Renata (22:55.618)
Mm
Natasha Silveira (22:57.83)
For example, if I’m handling a lot of sensitive data or I’m a decision maker, if they keep me on for another, say, month for me to work out my notice, that’s a risk to the business. Because those decisions that I make at that point in time might not be the decisions I would have made if it was an ongoing role. Because emotions come into play, you’re not thinking straight sometimes.
when it just depends on how risky it is to keep that person in that role for that notice period.
Renata (23:38.236)
Do you think for the person leaving there is any scope to negotiate?
Natasha Silveira (23:44.622)
There is usually. I’d say if a decision has been made to end the role, say, end of the week, the decision has already been made.
as a person affected, do you really want to be there? Do you really want to extend for another month and go through those emotions? Or do you just snap it off and start fresh? And you’ve got that time to reflect and plan what you want to do. So sometimes it’s better for both parties to just finish it off.
as they do with some of the roles. But then depending on what you’re working on, it might be beneficial for both parties to just finish stuff off. I remember when I got my redundancies, both times I was given about eight months. And that’s only because I was working on a project. So it was in the company’s interest to keep me on to have that project completed. And for me, the positive was learning
a lot from that project. was a whole outsourcing, offshore end project and that set me up for success for all my future roles. So it’s a really fine balance and I think anyone affected really needs to sit back and think do they really want to stay or is it better off for their mental health to just finish off and start fresh.
Renata (24:57.152)
Yeah, okay.
Renata (25:07.339)
Yeah
Renata (25:15.412)
Yeah, it’s good to have the option, isn’t it? It’s good to have the option. All right, now changing gears a little bit. want to talk to you. I actually have one more question about restructures. Why are there so many restructures at the end of the year? Why do I get more clients in November, December? Please tell me because I want to have a proper clean break at Christmas.
Natasha Silveira (25:17.848)
Yeah.
Renata (25:41.408)
And then all of a sudden I have all of these new consultations, people figuring out if they want to take voluntary redundancies or not. And of course, way more out placements from October onwards. But sadly, a lot in December. Why is that?
Natasha Silveira (25:52.088)
Mm.
Natasha Silveira (25:57.238)
Yeah, so I’ve seen two reasons for it. One, it’s the Christmas shutdown and so business is going to be slow. So you know, you’re saving that salary and stuff there. Second is depending on which financial year the company works towards, bonuses are paid out. not having someone as at the 31st of December means they don’t have to pay a bonus amount.
Renata (26:00.971)
Okay.
Renata (26:05.281)
Yeah.
Renata (26:10.613)
Mm
Renata (26:26.656)
Yeah, it’s so sad though, it does spoil people’s Christmas, doesn’t it?
Natasha Silveira (26:28.766)
It… I know, I know. I don’t… like personally I don’t think it should be done during Christmas. It’s a really bad time to be exiting someone.
Renata (26:37.506)
No, no, it’s a terrible time. Yes, all right. Okay, I want to talk to you about something else now. I wanted to talk to you about performance reviews. And this is something that a lot of my clients struggle with when I’m doing onboarding and executive coaching, but especially those first 90 days, usually when people start working with me, let’s say they sign up for six months, but they get a job in
Natasha Silveira (26:48.92)
Mm
Natasha Silveira (27:01.443)
Yep.
Renata (27:06.89)
let’s say four months or three months, then the rest of the coaching becomes more onboarding, making sure they meet probation and so on. And the performance reviews are such great opportunities to check in, to double check that you’re in the right path. I find, especially with my Australian clients, that for some reason, there’s a lot of
Natasha Silveira (27:14.701)
Yep.
Renata (27:35.466)
not a lot of communication between employees and managers. I don’t find that that’s much the case with employers in the US or in the UK where I have clients as well, or even in other countries. have countries in them, clients in the Middle East, Asia. There’s much more communication there than here. Here there seems to be a lack of communication. And then the performance review meeting is the meeting that is
Natasha Silveira (27:40.547)
Yep.
Natasha Silveira (27:57.304)
Thank
Renata (28:05.58)
quite shocking in terms of the information that you get. There’s too much information all at once because it has to be done there. There’s no way around it. How can we address this better? Not from the employee’s perspective. My listeners are usually not the leaders. They are the ones that are performance managed. How can they help their managers do a better job?
Natasha Silveira (28:07.126)
Yeah. Yo.
Natasha Silveira (28:13.656)
Mm.
Natasha Silveira (28:25.272)
Yep.
Natasha Silveira (28:34.51)
I think to start with, when you go through the induction and onboarding process, like a few years ago I created this launch plan where what do the first 90 days look like? How many check -ins, who are your stakeholders, who are you going to check in with and how often are you going to do that? And although it is…
it should that those first 90 days should be planned by the manager. If they haven’t, I’d recommend that, you know, the employee does it, then just be proactive about it and block it in, put it into your manager’s calendar. Make sure you’ve got regular one on ones past those 90 days as well. So usually you’d start off with a weekly one on one if you’re getting accustomed to the company. And then just depending on how comfortable you
are with what’s being delivered and how responsive your manager is being maybe every fortnight. But if they’re not doing it, I’d suggest just do it yourself because come performance review time, what most managers will focus on is solely the past performance. So they’re not going to think about, you know, whether they put in a one -on -one. It’s only going to be what feedback did, you know, your stakeholders give or
Renata (29:56.428)
Mm.
Natasha Silveira (30:00.72)
the most recent few weeks, what did I feel as a manager and that’s going to then reflect on your performance review. But if you’ve had those one -on -ones, you’ve got notes, you’ve been proactive about it. I think that makes then it less of a surprise towards the end and from a manager’s perspective, they’ve had those continuous conversations with you as well.
So it is not a one past mistake or the most recent mistake that they are going to focus on.
Renata (30:29.151)
Yes.
Renata (30:34.998)
Yeah, I like what you said. I like the weekly touch bases, catch -ups during that probationary period. I recommend that as well, and I often wondered if that was too much. But I’m glad you agreed with me.
Natasha Silveira (30:50.016)
I… yeah, and, you know…
It might not even be like a formal sit down in a meeting room. you could just grab your manager and go for coffee. And that way you’re building that rapport and you’re a personal sort of having a personal touch to the relationship as well. And then it goes both ways. When I work corporate, that’s how I used to manage my teams. Like instead of going into a meeting room or be like, okay, maybe this week we go out for a coffee and then you’re building that personal connection as well.
Renata (31:24.034)
No, I agree with that. That’s fantastic. I often mention that when I worked at Melbourne University 20 years ago, there was a vice chancellor that started and he was very new to the university. We didn’t know anything about him. And every Friday at 4 p he would email everybody like a normal email. It wasn’t a newsletter or anything corporate looking. It was just an email.
telling us what he had done that week. And I loved it so much. I thought it was so, did you? I loved it. I used to do that because I, you know, I saw him doing it and I thought this is such a great way of being a leader and finish off the week. And we used to wait in anticipation for that email, you know, that used to come at the end of the day on a Friday. And he would just.
Natasha Silveira (31:54.842)
I used to do that. Yeah.
Natasha Silveira (32:04.226)
Yeah, yeah.
to finish off.
Renata (32:18.018)
very casually talk about what he had done. It wasn’t written by PR. It wasn’t written, you know, it was really very nicely done. And the other thing that I learned from a previous boss as well, in fact, I’m trying to organize an episode with him. We used to, we were quite advanced. This was ages ago, back in 2012 -ish.
Natasha Silveira (32:22.742)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Renata (32:46.977)
But we were quite advanced in using technology and asynchronous communications. We used Slack at the time and we used a whole bunch of different things to make our lives easier. And he had this thing where it was an open Zoom. So on Friday mornings, anybody, was maybe 300, 400 people working for that organization, anybody could just pop into his Zoom and have a yarn with him. And I love that.
Natasha Silveira (32:53.656)
Mm -hmm.
Natasha Silveira (33:16.309)
wow, that is nice.
Renata (33:16.802)
Yeah, it wasn’t a meeting per se. If there was another person there or 10 other people there, it was an open door. But instead of an open door, it was an open Zoom because we had different offices in different states and even overseas. So I thought that that was a very clever way of connecting with your employees.
Natasha Silveira (33:20.419)
Yeah.
Natasha Silveira (33:27.95)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Natasha Silveira (33:38.146)
That is a great way of connecting. And it makes you so much more approachable, you know.
Renata (33:44.906)
Yeah, I like that. And I do that with mine. That’s right.
Natasha Silveira (33:46.228)
So there’s no, that hierarchy sort of disappears because people can approach you like you’re in the lunchroom or you’re grabbing a coffee and someone can just walk up to you and have a conversation after that. Whereas you usually see CEOs or the C -suite and they’re only with their direct reports or you know somewhat like a little junior analyst they don’t even know of. But something like this would help even the people who are just starting up like graduates.
Renata (33:57.82)
Exactly.
Renata (34:10.006)
Yes.
Natasha Silveira (34:16.112)
build that confidence and they’ve got that rapport and you know they know it’s like not we’re not the unseen team members
Renata (34:26.664)
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s nice to consider that in how you can do that remotely, which, you know, the Zoom open door can work really well for that because so many criticism for remote and hybrid work is the lack of the water cooler conversation. Like people don’t meet at the kitchen anymore. So that can sort of be a substitute for that. I’m a big fan of the Zoom open door and I often recommend that to my clients.
Natasha Silveira (34:35.095)
get.
Natasha Silveira (34:44.654)
Yep.
Natasha Silveira (34:56.419)
Yep.
Renata (34:58.243)
In talking about leaders and what they do well, what do you think leaders that you work with are doing super well these days that are helping them manage their teams in this sort hybrid environment?
Natasha Silveira (35:15.543)
I think with leaders just being contactable because one of the fears in being in a hybrid model is some leaders always appear red.
Renata (35:21.483)
Hmm.
Natasha Silveira (35:31.586)
the dots always red, they’re always in a meeting, so how do you get in touch with them? Whereas if they were, if reverse that and you were in an office, you could just walk up to your manager and ask whatever you needed to. So I think with leaders, maybe, and a lot of companies, or friends who work corporate have told me there’s,
probably an hour every day that’s meeting free. So then you’re approachable that way, or you have a complete meeting free day and you work as a team together that day. So that makes leaders a bit more approachable. It gives you then the benefits of working hybrid as well.
it sort of reinstates.
Renata (36:23.34)
Sorry, Natasha, you’re freezing a little bit. I think you’re now completely frozen. Let me see if it’s my internet or yours. Give me just a moment. Yeah, you can. No? good. Okay. No, you froze for just a couple of seconds and you had already finished saying your piece. So that’s okay. We can delete these things. We can edit things out. So that’s completely fine. All right. Okay.
Natasha Silveira (36:28.555)
Natasha Silveira (36:33.506)
I can still hear you. Yeah, and you’re not frozen on mine.
Natasha Silveira (36:46.766)
Okay, that’s good.
Renata (36:52.482)
Yeah, no, I think being contactable and available is super important, especially because so many people are never in the same office as each other anymore. So that’s super good. What about culture? Are you finding that in this new environment of hybrid and remote, it’s affecting culture? How are they managing culture in the workplace these days?
Natasha Silveira (37:03.576)
Yep.
Natasha Silveira (37:22.082)
think you have the two days in the office that a lot of companies are doing and the two days in the office that gives you an opportunity to get together as a team, grab lunch, you’re still going, you’re still sort of maintaining that culture.
And then the days that you’re not in the office, then you’ve got that, you know, meeting free day where you still can engage. There’s a very cool thing that we used to do when I was still work corporate, just towards the tail, sorry, just at the start of COVID. And we used to do these, what’s it, Kahoot?
Kahoot! It’s like these quizzes and you play it as a team and you can do it online. So we used to do that. We used to do virtual drinks on a Friday if no one’s in the office and maybe log off at four o ‘clock, pour yourself a glass of wine and sit on a Zoom call and have a drink as a team together.
Renata (38:11.617)
Honestly.
Renata (38:17.984)
Okay.
Natasha Silveira (38:35.631)
If we used to do a lot of Friday lunches, the leadership team would get lunch delivered to each team member’s house and we’d have lunch meeting instead. So there was quite a lot of then budget that was kept aside for these sort of things to then maintain the culture and be able to sustain that hybrid environment.
Renata (38:58.379)
Yeah.
Okay. In terms of what employers complain the most about working with the remote teams and dealing with issues that arise in this sort of new way of working, what are the most common complaints that you’re hearing as a consultant?
Natasha Silveira (39:23.303)
I’d say when employees aren’t approachable, that’s one. When they appear that they’re available but you call them and they don’t pick up a Teams call. Then there’s, you know, there’s…
Renata (39:26.892)
Mm
Natasha Silveira (39:42.99)
clear communication not working both ways like you know they might have gone out for an appointment or you know school pick up or whatever but if it’s out of routine then the manager doesn’t know about it and so they don’t.
they can’t get a hold of the team member. I think one of the other ones is when people keep their cameras off during team meetings and it is a virtual team meeting. So then you don’t really know what the person is doing, where the person is. They might be sitting in, I don’t know, Vietnam for all you know.
Renata (40:13.633)
Yeah.
Renata (40:23.446)
Yeah, yeah, no, no, I think the camera off is a big, it’s a big no, no. It’s a new etiquette that we’re all having to learn. Okay, so now if we’re looking at people that are listening to the job hunting podcast, I mean, the name says it all, they’re looking for work in the months ahead, they probably want to get a job in the next two, three months. As somebody who works with employers,
Natasha Silveira (40:29.08)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Renata (40:48.744)
What do you think you can recommend to them in terms of things that they can do or say when they meet employers, when they’re in touch with hiring managers? What are the things that you think are most exciting for the hiring managers to hear from a good candidate?
Natasha Silveira (41:05.358)
I think the first is to make sure that your resume and LinkedIn is up to date.
Renata (41:14.22)
Good, thank you. Work with me if you don’t have that yet. All right.
Natasha Silveira (41:18.126)
It’s like, I think LinkedIn is really important to have right and you have the right type of bio. Putting, you know, it doesn’t have to be too wordy. You didn’t have to put your entire career on there, but it just needs to be punchy with what you want to do in your next role. There’s a lot of…
Renata (41:29.131)
you
Natasha Silveira (41:42.538)
managers who are casually looking but they haven’t really advertised the role. So, you know, just watch out for the posts that go online. There are a lot of recruiters as well who, you know, share posts or they’ll reshare like.
paying it forward usually the hashtag is so if anyone’s looking up for that and if they’re talking to potential managers for roles I think listening to what the requirements of the role actually are because a lot of
Renata (42:03.466)
Yeah.
Natasha Silveira (42:20.174)
people who are interviewing will jump into solution mode and you know it’s like yes I’ve done XYZ but they can already like an employer can already see that you’ve done XYZ from your resume it’s more how are you going to add value to what they want in this current role so just asking the right questions around the role and being able to demonstrate how you’re going to add value
Renata (42:47.17)
Yes, and I think that the listening mode is so interesting what you just said because people come into job interviews and they’re ready to talk, talk themselves up and talk about themselves and so on and they usually forget that listening is just as important. In fact, I was looking at research that shows that a 50 -50 breakdown of you talking and somebody else talking is actually
Natasha Silveira (42:58.925)
Yep.
Natasha Silveira (43:06.721)
Exactly.
Natasha Silveira (43:13.196)
and the right. Yep.
Renata (43:14.811)
much more beneficial for you as a candidate than you talking most of the time.
Natasha Silveira (43:20.206)
And I think candidates should also remember it is the best opportunity for them to interview the employer as well. Right. So do you really want this job? Does this job fit in with your career aspirations or your personal life? So just jumping into solution mode and talking about your experience and stuff doesn’t give you’re losing that opportunity to actually interview the employer as well. So like you said, it needs to be a 50 -50 balance.
Renata (43:50.368)
Yeah, you know that’s usually something people forget as well because if they’re in stress mode and very keen to get a job they forget that not every job is a good job for them. So the fact that you know you’re being interviewed doesn’t mean that it’s a good match for you. It’s important to have confidence in yourself know that the right job will come up if this is not the right one for you. Yeah, thank you for that.
Natasha Silveira (44:03.139)
Yep.
Natasha Silveira (44:14.146)
Yeah, absolutely.
Renata (44:17.611)
Do you have any final words that you want to leave the audience with, you know, some recommendations or advice that you would like to give them?
Natasha Silveira (44:26.894)
I’d say if someone’s looking to change jobs or you know they’re going through a redundancy, it’s not an end -all situation. So take that time and take this opportunity to decide what you want to do further down in your career or you know it might be a great opportunity to spend time with family. It might also be a great opportunity to upscale yourself. So you know maybe there was something in the previous job like you wanted to do
Renata (44:35.83)
Yeah.
Natasha Silveira (44:56.968)
reporting or you know get into AI or analytics that’s talk of the town these days so maybe it’s a great opportunity to do like a short course or something. Google and LinkedIn has amazing short courses that you know like webinars and stuff that you can attend so really take it as an opportunity as opposed to it’s something bad that’s happened to me.
Renata (44:58.722)
Thank
Renata (45:21.962)
Natasha, what if somebody is made redundant or decides to leave their job and wants to have a business? What advice would you have for them since you’ve done it now?
Natasha Silveira (45:34.198)
If you’re confident about it, well I wouldn’t say if you’re because I wasn’t confident about it, I’d say go for it and there’s nothing you can lose. You start with nothing and it doesn’t work out, that’s fine. You’ve still got a corporate life to go back to. That’s what I told myself when I started and I still tell myself that down the track if it doesn’t work out, I’ve still got corporate or worse case I’ve still got hospitality to go back to.
Renata (46:03.322)
You’re right, you can always do something else or go back to where you were. That’s how I sold it to my husband as well. said, look, I want to start my business. If it doesn’t work in five years, I promise I will go back. It’s over five years now. So thank goodness I’m still here.
Natasha Silveira (46:05.677)
Yeah.
Natasha Silveira (46:16.814)
Yeah.
Natasha Silveira (46:20.618)
I don’t have the same touch wood.
Renata (46:24.404)
All right, Natasha, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for finding us and reaching out. It’s always great to talk to people like you who have not only the personal experience of having substantially changed careers, that’s why I asked you for advice, because so many corporate professionals dream about having their own businesses and never actually act on it.
hearing from somebody like you might motivate somebody to start making the right plans and bootstrap their own business. But also the fact that you work with employers, you are in human resources helping them with restructures and consultancies. It gives them the job candidates and the job search professionals an idea of what’s going on from a different perspective, right? Because you’re
Natasha Silveira (47:14.52)
Yeah.
Renata (47:17.449)
sometimes navel gazing a lot and just thinking about what you want and what you deserve and the things that you want. But then you have to look at, you know, the situation from different perspectives. So thank you for coming on board and talking to us. I really appreciate it.
Natasha Silveira (47:23.523)
Yes.
Natasha Silveira (47:28.472)
the other side of it. Yeah. Yeah.
Thank you for having me Renata, it’s been an amazing conversation.
Renata (47:37.438)
No problem. All right, bye bye. Okay, you don’t need to go. no, you’re left.
Natasha Silveira (47:39.754)
Alright, see you, bye!
Renata (47:48.13)
Okay.
Renata (47:53.218)
I should have said, don’t go.
