Renata: Let’s start by talking about journey HR and what led you to do what you’re doing now.
Michelle: Yeah, well, I have always worked in internal HR roles. Actually that’s not true. I started my career in sports marketing of all places and had a very quick realization that people were at the heart of organizations. And just really became interested in how you can uplift performance by the way that you treat and engage your people and went back and did some more study in HR.
I worked for a number of different organizations, General Motors for a long time, Australia Post, ME Bank, and really got to a point in time after we had children where it just wasn’t quite working myself and my husband having jobs in the city, you know, we’re 45 minutes out of the city and I just had this constant stress hanging over my head when we were both in the city and I’m like, what if one of the kids gets hurt at childcare, you know what if we’re needed and just the travel time and You know family logistics just weren’t working so I stepped out and became a corporate escapee myself and started consulting and freelancing on my own and It was around that time towards the end of 2019, I noticed that there were just more and more people opting out of traditional employment and wanting to work in a different way. And that was really the start of Werkling. So an interest in why more people and when I looked around my network, I could see. It wasn’t the average people. It certainly wasn’t the shit people.
It was the great people, people who I knew, who had a proven track record, who had the reputation, who had the runs on the board behind them, who were making that, this career move. So that was kind of what planted the seed for Werkling and looking to explore more what’s happening in this space.
Renata: Yes, it’s amazing when I look back at my own career and the things that we did in order to fit full time work and children. I just can’t seem to fathom how I did it, but then back then my kids are now 29 and 26 years old. So back then there wasn’t an option. There wasn’t even an option to be a part time executive, right?
Like, I remember, reading about it, but it was like this one off case of somebody who was co sharing a job with somebody else and wasn’t it great. Could this be the future? And I was like, can this be our life sooner, please? Cause I’m struggling here.
Michelle: I know, look, I still think that the availability of really meaningful, senior challenging part time roles is a huge issue. And probably one of the factors that drives people to look at, okay, well, what are the other ways that I can work and add value to organizations? If I can’t get that meaningful part time role, what else could this look like to carve out my own career outside of the bounds of organizations that really want us to work full time and at that point in time, fully in the office?
Renata: yes, and, and interestingly let me see if I got this right. So we’re getting started just before the pandemic. Is that right? Yeah,
Michelle: Oh yeah, it’s a great time to start a business just before a pandemic strikes, right?
It was interesting because I could already see these, trend happening, right? So you could see on one side of the market, more people wanting to work outside of the traditional uh, business employment model. And you could also say organizations who had always designed themselves in this incredibly static way, where you have this fixed structure and you have the exact same number of people in the exact same number of roles with the exact same capabilities.
Every day of the week, every week of the year, not being fit for purpose in this dynamic world of work. And this is before the global pandemic hits. And that’s obviously just accelerated these needs on both sides of the equation.
Renata: Yes. Did the pandemic become block to your business growth or did it sort of ride the wave with the pandemic? Those short term contracts that I saw happening during the pandemic. So many of my clients, of course, because I do, you know, executive coaching and career coaching for people that mostly want a new job or lose their jobs.
So many lost their jobs during the pandemic and they were able to sign up for short term contracts because sort of hiring was mainly frozen all around the world, but there were lots of opportunities for people to step in to support a specific project that was endemic related and many did that. Were you able to capture that market?
Michelle: Yeah, we literally started the business, registered the business in January 2020. So we were only, you know, two months in still building tech, still forming our community. So we were probably. In quite early days, my mindset in particular for 2020 was this is a year to keep listening and things are changing so quickly and so significantly that I really took in particular 2020 for a year.
To build the foundations of the platform from a tech stack standpoint, to build the foundations of our community, and also just to keep listening to leaders. So it probably actually took the pressure off myself a little bit in that first year of business. That first year of business is really tricky. So I just really gave myself permission to spend more time exploring and, you know, taking that pressure off immediately.
So that was 2020, but I think on the back of that, there definitely has been a huge opportunity in terms of just re imagining work. Flexibility is now a currency. It’s at a premium. So there has been a huge amount of. Demand and, you know, the conversation around, you know, are jobs the best way to design work?
What does that skills based organization look like? So there’s been this real momentum building, which has been perfect timing for us. So. Certainly the start of the pandemic was more righted out, but then it was, well, how do we start to be a part of the conversation around the future of work and the future of how we design work?
So it felt like a blessing and a curse at the time, and now it just feels like a blessing.
Renata: Yes. I’m wondering here if this, in addition to developing the tech platform you know, how did you validate your idea? Because you saw what was happening, you yourself, you know, had the lived experience of wanting flexibility. Did you then go out and interview people and checked in with employers?
How did you do that validation?
Michelle: Before doing anything, I did well over a hundred interviews with both sides of the market. So on the talent side, you know, what we hear, and I continue to hear time and time again is, you know, it feels liberating. I feel liberated when I work outside of this traditional job structure. I get to choose the work that I want to do.
I get to play to my strengths. I get to say no to the work that doesn’t align from a value standpoint or from a strength standpoint. So it’s that ownership. And Empowerment that speaks to people through those early customer interviews, what I heard from a challenge standpoint, if you ask anyone, what do you miss about being in a job?
You know, your last job, what do you miss about it? They will never say, Oh, it’s the regular paycheck. It’s the security. The thing that people will say is I miss being part of a team. So that became a part of the problem to solve for me. So how do you re imagine this sense of team and create a sense of belonging and community for these people who are.
Primarily working by themselves, you might have a few people that wind up employing a couple of people, but, you know, this freelance on demand talent predominantly working for themselves. So that became a really interesting pace for us to lean into and one that I’m incredibly passionate about, because you know, that belonging impacts performance, belonging impacts well being.
So how, can we, by creating this space for on demand talent. Not onlyincrease their career happiness, but also uplift the experience that the businesses are having when they’re working with people from the Workland community. So that early customer research was really important on that side.
And then on the business side, just hearing what some of their pain points were. And some of that was around. engaging traditional large consultancies and obviously that is very topical in the news at the moment, but those pain points have been around for a very long time. You know, the stories I would hear again and again is that, you know, the partners come in and, and, you know, we’ve locked in the deal.
Then I’m being sent in a grad and now I’m somehow paying 5, 000 for a grad and I’m training them to do the thing that I’m paying 5, 000 a day for. So hearing those stories again and again, around just some frustrations of the traditional consulting model. You know, and then you’ve got this beautiful talent pool of people that have this rich organizational experience that can come in and deliver that outcome based project based work.
It was, you know, I think spending that time really listening to customers. And understanding those pain points is just, yeah, well, certainly a very important part of our journey.
Renata: Is there a certain demographic that you can identify as the ideal candidate for that type of lifestyle and, Work engagement or is it very broad?
Michelle: So the demographic that we see most of at the moment are people 15 to 20 years plus in their career. So they are people who have had really well established internal careers, have typically moved through to that head of GM type level before they’re stepping out and establishing themselves as on demand talent or independent consultant.
I think that will change in the future as the next generation enters the workforce. And we’re already hearing that they’re wanting to work for themselves. They’re not wanting to step into a traditional graduate role and wait 10 years to become, you know, a middle manager in the organization. So I think that’s certainly going to change, but today we’re still seeing that earlier career talent.
Going in house and gaining that valuable experience. So the vast majority of our community you know, 15, 20, 25 plus years experience. So you’re getting really seasoned professionals, which is quite interesting from a comparison perspective, particularly when you look at bigger consulting, what. You might buy with the same, what you can get for the same amount of money going to a traditional consulting versus going to independent talent.
You might get someone who’s less than five years experience for you’d be paying a higher rate than someone who’s possibly 20 years experience within this talent segment. So they’re, they’re very seasoned professionals.
Renata: Yeah, give me an idea of the sort of engagement one could expect by opting into that sort of flexible work mode. Is it long with, you know with small organizations or large organizations?
Michelle: That’s a really good question. We’ve traditionally really bucketed the concept of a contingent workforce into this one bucket, but like any, you know, customer group, there’s different segments within that. So if you look at the broader contingent workforce, you’ve got contractors who. People who might roll on and off 12 month, 18 month jobs. But when I say on demand talent, I’m talking about people who really have that portfolio career and they’re in, they’re not interested in a job. So even if we had an organization reach out to us and say, Oh, I, we’ve, we need someone for five months in this full time job. I probably can’t help them because our community have that real portfolio career.
Now, if I said to that person who wanted someone in for five months, okay, well, what’s the outcome? What do you need that person to do? Well, I need them to do a learning needs analysis and I need them to create a learning strategy and I need them to design these programs. Oh yeah, we can do that. So let’s shift the conversation from this time based view of work.
So I need someone five days a week for five months. And they’re going to work for me and only me to, okay, what are the outcomes you need? And when do you need them by? So our community tend to do more of that statement of work type work rather than short term jobs. And certainly I’ve seen a bit of a split in the talent market around people wanting full time jobs and wanting the security and the, you know, embedded in the organization element that comes with that, or they want this gig.
Based work, there’s lesser demand and it’s not true for all job families. There are many jobs like change managers or tech who are happy to take on that 12 or 18 month project, but for a lot of people, well, if I take on that short term assignment, six months or 12 months, I’m not getting the permanency of jobs.
Not that there’s really anything such as a permanent job anymore. But I’m also not getting the flexibility that comes with a portfolio and career and outcome based work. So, so yeah, they can look a little bit different. And the organizations we work with everything from, you know, largest corporates, global organizations.
through to smaller businesses. And I think, you know, for smaller businesses, it’s about, okay, well, what are some of the capabilities we don’t need all the time? We just need them some of the time. So if you’re a small business, you might not need a full time permanent HR person. You might just need that support.
Some of the time. So as opposed to employing, embedding within your structure, how can you maybe have a bench of talent that you bring in and out of your organization? So you still have that ongoing relationship. They still know your business, but you bring them in and out as needed. Whereas for larger organizations, it’s more around flexing that workforce.
We know that work isn’t static. There’s peaks, there’s troughs, yet we have these exactly six people within this team. And we ride out the peaks and we wonder why everyone gets burnt out. So how can we better design our team so we can flex up and flex down? So that’s more of the work that we do with large organizations and helping them to.
You know, take projects and take outcomes off their plate and work with their teams to deliver them. Just like any other traditional consultancy does, but we work as opposed to working with a consultancy, you’re working with an individual or a team of individuals.
Renata: From an employer’s perspective, right, let’s talk about the employers first, because then I want to deep dive into how to help people transition into that sort of work. But from an employer’s perspective is outsourcing already embedded in their strategy and in their thinking, or do you have to do a lot of educating and selling up this sort of way of working to them?
Michelle: yeah, there’s a lot of education and that’s because we’re doing something a little bit different. A part of what we’re challenging is even that very concept of outsourcing. So rather than having, Oh, this is my internal team, talent, internal team, external vendor suppliers. How can we start to reimagine that?
So we’re going. Actually, this is my core team and this is the extension of my core team, but seeing the entirety of it as talent and thinking about it and talking about it as talent. Because our talent are not, I mean, yes, you might pay them by invoice. But they’re not vendors or suppliers. They want to be that trusted extension of your team.
So there’s a few concepts, I guess, where we just think a little bit differently to the traditional way that talent has been thought of within organizations. And some organizations get that and some don’t, and some are on that journey. And it also comes back to even just the role of their talent teams within the organization.
Is it all focused on acquisition? Because if it is, there’s this amazing talent pool out there that don’t want to be acquired. They want to be accessed for the right opportunities. So a lot of what we’re doing is, I guess, questioning the way that things have been done before which is… Exciting and exhilarating and exhausting and all the things in between.
Because we’re not a consultancy and we’re not a labor hire and we’re not a recruitment agency. You know, we know we’ve been talking about the gig economy for so long, you know, over 50 percent of the U S workforce will be working gig by 2027, like these are big numbers and we’ve seen it completely disrupt.
Driver and delivery and all these other elements, amazing work happening in health care. So what we’re really looking at is that professional end of the gig economy. These people who are saying, I don’t want a job. I want to work for organizations. I want to do amazing work, but I want to do it across multiple different industries and organizations.
So it’s really exciting.
Renata: Yes, one thing that I often educate my clients, the job seekers on how to change, and it will require a different set of tools and resources for you to be successful at it.
It’s a different competition, so I always think about job hunting as a competition and you have to be good at qualifying for it, and you have to be, you know, really knowledgeable to get the job you want. But if you want to be a gig professional, then it’s a different type of competition. And I saw your platform and it kind of solves a few of the issues like you mentioned, the lack of engagement teamwork and collegiality that seems to have been resolved by Werkling. But you also have things like the invoicing that I thought was interesting, you know, a few things that people, when they think about working for themselves, they don’t want to do. It’s still, it would require them to think differently about the way that they earn money, the way that they live their lives, and You know, balance work and other things. What do you think are the common mistakes that people make when they are considering working like you are proposing and advocating for?
Michelle: Typically what I say within our community is it’s a very conscious choice. It isn’t people in between jobs, it isn’t, you know, people falling into it. It is a very, it’s not our community and people who establish themselves as on demand talent aren’t people. who are unable to get a job. They are people that have deeply considered the way that they want to work and the way that they want to design their life and their work.
And whether that is around family or well being or actually just taking on the pieces of work that fill their bucket, you know, one of my favorite times of the week is if we match someone to a gig and they say to us, Hmm, I could do it, but you know what? I’m really just focusing on this building my coaching practice at the moment.
So I’m going to pass on it. I love it. Like I love people to say, no, I actually don’t want to do that bit of work or I’m at capacity. I can’t take that on right now. Because how hard is it internally to go. Do you boss? No, I don’t want to do that. Or, no, I’m too busy for that. So I love that empowering piece.
But, I think The people in our community, It takes work before you quit your job and step out. And they’re people that very deliberately. So I think the mistakes I say people make
Uh creep when an assignment is getting bigger and bigger.
So I think there’s some of those. learnings that people learn. I, think the other thing that I say, probably the thing that I would consider to be the biggest mistake is just investing too much time. In the stuff that doesn’t matter,
Renata: Yes.
Michelle: getting a website, getting a you know, the perfect logo made getting the perfect, you know, we’ve got amazing people who are still working off a Gmail email address and don’t have a website yet.
Now, of course, there’s a place for a website and all of
that beautiful branding, which is great, but you can get the ball rolling. Before that. And if you’re just stepping out into gig based consulting based work, the reality is that most of your early engagements are going to come from people who know you, trust you, have worked with you in the past.
So in those really early days and long before you’ve even quit your job, just reconnecting with your network and reestablishing those trusted relationships is far better spend than playing around on Canva with a logo. Sorry.
Renata: everyone, if you’re really keen, just go back, rewind, listen to all of this again. You’ve just nailed it, because I committed all of those mistakes. All of them, every single one you’ve mentioned before. The first time I had my business, I was very young. So, you know, that there was that excuse. I spent all my budget with the logo.
Like the logo was so beautiful. It won a prize in a design competition. The architect was really thrilled. It did not bring me any money, but you know, it was a beautiful logo. And Shout out to my good friend, Dev Palai, for, you know, when she found out I was wanting to work for myself again she came here and with Big, her husband, and they gave me so much advice and I took it all on board.
And basically it’s all of the things you just said, you know, I think the scope creep, I love that. I hadn’t heard about it, but that’s, you know, such an important thing that as a solo consultant, it can happen. How much to charge is so important to know so that you’re within market. That your, you know, first clients will be people from your network.
That is so important. Don’t spend too much time focusing on developing a website. That’s so important, but that’s the opposite. the opposite of how people go about, you know developing their businesses. And I love all of what you said. One thing that I work with clients, but I’d love to hear your views is how much to charge.
Do you have a book on that? Do you have like a guideline that you would suggest people follow when they’re consolo consultant?
Michelle: Yeah, look, it’s always the number one question, and I think it’s very different depending on what field you’re working in and how specialized you are, unlike any market, you know, how many of you are there? So I think it is quite field specific. So even if you look in the field of, you know, people in culture, HR, what someone who works in.
remuneration can charge is probably quite different to someone who’s doing a employee value proposition. It’s just a fairly specialized. So I think that’s number one thing. So exploring what that looks like for your area ask people, you will know other people who are doing similar sort of work. And say the worst I can say is no, but would you mind sharing with me the sorts of day rates and the ranges.
That you have seen or you know happen within our community, having those kinds of conversations. If you’re a part of a platform like Workling or other platforms, you know, we’re always there to help advise. My other big piece of advice that I give to everyone within our community is where at all possible, actually just steer clear of day rates and scope up work as a fixed cost.
Because when you provide something as a day rate, Some organizations and some leaders get quite fixated on their day rate, that day rate, and are immediately picking up that phone, trying to turn it into a salary, and then falling off their chair at what that number looks like, reframing the work that you’re doing as a fixed cost.
Takes the focus away from that day rate and puts the focus on, well, what is the value? What are the outcomes you are delivering? Now not all work is scopable. If you’re stepping into an organization to provide support for a change program, it’s too big to wrap your arms around and scope. But if you’re doing something like rewriting a copy for a website, try to get that.
Fixed cost. So you can go, okay, for me, and of course you’ll have your day, right? You’re working in the backend, but to go back to the client and go, right, it is going to cost 8, 000 for me to rewrite your website. And that puts it back in the client’s hands to go, okay, well, am I going to get 8, 000 worth of value here as opposed to getting fixated on this day rate?
Because the day rate is obviously inclusive of a whole bunch of stuff. You know, insurances and all those practical stuff, but also learning and development and all these other parts. And also often the 20 years of experience that people have behind them, because what one day looks like when you’re working as on demand talent looks quite different to what that one day looks like as an employee.
So if you were to engage me for a piece of work and I say, it’s going to cost, you know, it’s one day. It’s going to cost, whatever, 1, 500. And you think about one day as an employee, you’re going to different meetings, you’re going in this, you’re doing emails, you’re getting, you’re doing a bit of this, a bit of that.
You’re all over the place. When you’re engaging someone for one day’s work, they are literally sitting down eight hours and working on that thing. So the value that you get, they aren’t kind of checking their emails, you’re getting eight hours of actual productive work. So it’s a really tricky one. So that’s a very long way to say, ask around if you are a part of a platform.
you know, have that conversation, focus on your field. Don’t focus outside of that field. And where you can cost something as a fixed cost, challenge yourself to try to do that.
The other thing that I would add to the day rate conversation is, if you have a day rate and you told three people what your day rate was, one will laugh because it’s too high, one will laugh because it’s too low, and one will think it’s completely normal.
That will happen always and forever. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Renata: Yes, you’re absolutely right. And, you know, talking about pay and day rates and all of that made me think about the fact that people opt into let’s say the gig economy. But I’m assuming most of them are not in this. ultra privileged position where if they don’t earn money one month, it’s okay. Or, you know, they’re in it for the experience.
I’m assuming that many professionals would still like to get some sort of consistency in their work and income. They sort of thinking about it, even if it’s like, I need to make X a year at least for, to make this work for the gig economy work for me. So how can they ensure that they will be successful and Locking in the work that we’ll deliver on that budget that they need to achieve.
Michelle: I would say that there is a fair amount of privilege that comes with professionals that are stepping out into the gig economy. And it’s interesting, this whole conversation around the gig economy happens like it’s this one thing. The reality is there’s a very vulnerable end and there’s a very privileged end.
So the vulnerable and needs all of the mechanisms around it to protect it. Certainly the people within our community are at that more privileged. And, and for a lot of them, when they are stepping out of internal roles, they have a bit of a financial buffer. They have a bit of freedom to take a risk. And I’m not saying that’s the case in all cases, but in a lot of cases, there is like particularly where they’re stepping out of.
Very senior corporate roles. Let’s make no mistake. They’ve been on a good week for a long period of time. So I think there is a little bit of financial comfort there for a lot of people working in the professional end of the gig economy. How do you make sure you’re going to, you know, have that revenue?
That’s the million dollar question. Interestingly though, you know, we’ve always thought about that permanent job as being more secure.
Renata: Okay.
Michelle: But I knew a lot of people through the pandemic who had a permanent job, permanent job I’ll do imaginary air quotes who lost that one permanent job. I also knew a lot of people that were working in the gig economy who had a portfolio career who might have had five different revenue streams and lost three of them, but still had two.
So I think the challenge in terms of your finances is to start thinking about income streams and revenue streams rather than this one job that is providing you that. weekly fortnightly, monthly revenue. I would certainly suggest not being reliant on anyone else other than yourself. So if you have one good client.
That’s great, but don’t rely on them. Don’t become complacent. How can you establish those other future opportunities? And I think that is a bit of a trap that a lot of people can fall in. Getting that one first client, getting busy and forgetting to do that, you know, feed the pipeline so you have other opportunities, what happens when this piece of work ends, where’s the next piece of work coming from?
So always making sure that yes, you are absolutely delivering today, but you’re also looking at, at what’s next. Certainly using platforms like Workling and other platforms can be a great source of gigs,
Renata: Bin
Michelle: but also you can, you know, and we say to our community, when you join us as a member, you’re joining our community.
You’re joining to be a part of this group. We’d love to get your gig. We’re working to get you a gig, but is that your right? You know, it’s not a promise. It’s not a guarantee. it’s the icing on the cake of being a part of a community like this. So it can. Be amazing to align yourself with different platforms that can bring you opportunities.
The other path that a lot of people take, particularly in the early days is exploring associate work. So how might you find maybe a boutique consultancy that does similar work? that you do, where there’s a values alignment and a strengths alignment, and you can look at being an associate or effectively a subcontractor for that for that associate, sorry, for that consultancy.
The other thing that a lot of people might look like might look at as a bit of a transition is what can I lock down? Can I maybe lock down a part time job? So find something that’s a little bit longer term, maybe it’s two days a week or three days a week, but it gives me that space on the other days of the week that I can start to build my own practice and, and dabble in the gig economy a bit more,
Renata: Are you providing some great solutions there? Sorry, go
ahead.
Michelle: no, I was just going to say, but there’s no.
I mean, if the pandemic has taught us anything, there’s no guarantees, right? Like, you know, the number of industries that were stood down or so I don’t know, I just see that concept of security and certain income, you know, the gap reducing between these different work models because nothing’s hmm.
Renata: Absolutely. I remember a few months ago, Oh gosh, I don’t know if I saved this article, but I sent it in my, I have a weekly newsletter and I sent lots of interesting articles for people that are interested in, in career. And this one was a very geeky analysis comparing a full time permanent job and income you make from it versus somebody in a sort of equivalent.
Work experience, but working as a gig professional and what it would mean to lose one opportunity. Let’s say you lose one client of maybe four clients that you have, but you still retain maybe 70 percent of your income. Whereas if you lose your job, then you lose your job and it would take you maybe three to four months to get another job.
So, yeah, so it was a really interesting article too. I think. Dismystify and also break down some cultural blocks people have around opting into interning work, gig work, consultancy and stuff like that.
the one thing that I would add to everything that you’ve just said, which I think is really on point is this.
What you said is on point. What I’m about to say, I don’t know, you tell me. I think it’s also important for you. As a professional, not to be too precious about the work, right? I mean, you can be, and you gave a great example of opting out because you want to focus more on your coaching. And I really love that example.
I personally have done exactly that. And I know how empowering it feels, but also how weird it is to say no to a great, you know, opportunity. But sometimes if you need money, you just take up. some sort of job that might not be exactly what you envisioned when you opted into this, but it will pay the bills for the next few months and you will come out better for it in the end.
And I think being less precious, I say this because many of my clients have achieved very senior roles. And they see themselves as steering, mostly, and sometimes when you are accepting consulting jobs or short term contracts, you get your hands dirty way more than you used to in the past, and I think people may not have been prepared for that.
Do you agree?
Michelle: Oh, I 100%. I think, you know, I will often have a conversation with a leader that’s like, Oh, are sure this is the right person? Like she looks like strategic. Can she deliver? I’m like, yeah, like absolutely. So I think probably two sides of the equation, certainly for leaders to look at, like if talent says.
Yes. I want to do this gig. Yes. I can deliver. They can do it. Like people aren’t saying yes to work that they are unable or unwanting to do. So, sometimes that looks like people who have been in more senior roles are stepping in and getting their hands dirty, which, you know, they love. I think from the talent perspective yeah, like that can look really different in the early days.
I know a lot of people who… Yeah. Just said yet. Like you will say yes to everything in the early days and that is completely fine. Now as you build that, that network of organizations you work with, and as your dance card become fully, you get to be more selective with, with who you dance with, but you’re not doing it before that time.
And we’ve had some awesome examples of leaders you know, Senior worklings stepping in and just getting their hands dirty with work. But it’s an opportunity to just keep trying this sort of work on for size, getting runs on the board and, you know, increasing their reputation. I remember talking to a leader a while ago, it was probably a couple of years ago now, who.
Probably there was a few trust and control issues in the organization, but I remember her saying to me, but how do you know, how do you know, like, why would these people be coming in and doing a good, you know, they’re not an employee. How do you know they’re doing a good job? I’m like these every time.
On demand talent show up for a gig and take on a gig. That is their reputation on the line. We all know that everybody knows everybody. So it’s their name and brand and reputation. Like they are there to make you look good. They are there to take this problem off your plate and solve it for you. And yeah, sometimes that might look like complex strategic work and other times it’s just what is needed by the organization.
So I think particularly in those early days, yeah, like just, it’s a foot in the door. And you take the gigs that come your way with gratitude. And you know, I’m a big believer in career karma. You know, you just put good out there. You help people. You help connect other people. You know, you put some you know, free resources on the internet.
You know, you just share and that’ll come back to you.
Renata: Yes, oh, I’m a believer in that as well. It has worked for both of us, so it must be true.
Michelle: Yes. Yes, yes,
yes.
Renata: Now, okay, so final sort of thoughts and ideas that you may want to share with people that are sitting there listening to us talk about this and considering is this for me, what would you say to them to help them make a decision?
Okay.
Michelle: The number one piece of advice that I always give people if they are considering stepping out and becoming a corporate escapee is make a list of every job you’ve ever had and who were the people you loved working with in those jobs. It doesn’t matter. Go all the way back. And you know, in every job there was, you know, you had your little workplace bestie.
I don’t like the term, you know, work husband and work wife, but you know, you had your people that you were close to in that organization. Reconnect with them. And it doesn’t matter if it was 10 years ago. Now don’t reconnect asking for anything. Don’t reconnect asking them if there’s any project or gigs, just reconnect and have a coffee and talk about what you’ve been up to and talk about what they’ve been up to.
And it’ll feel awkward at the start, but they. We’ll have loved working with you too, and we’ll be thrilled to hear from you and so keen to catch up. That’s what I did when I started consulting and it built my confidence I’d always been pretty bad at networking or even just keeping in contact with people.
And it just built my confidence in. You know, reconnecting with people I haven’t spoken to in a while and then going on to connect with people who I didn’t know, you know, for me, that also led to an opportunity because someone was like, Oh, yeah, I loved working with you. Actually, could you just come and do this thing for me?
So I don’t think do it from that with that intent. But. It’s just a great way to start building that networking muscle that is going to be needed to build a successful portfolio career. I think if you’re still weighing up the pros and cons I think reflecting on the sort of work that you love to do.
What is it about work that fills cup and gets you excited? If you want to be a decision maker, work internally. If you want to be central to the core operations of the business. Work internally, work as an employee. If you want to lead teams, work internally. So if those are the sorts of things that you want from your career, then probably working internally, I was talking to someone recently who was you know, we’re having this very conversation.
She’s like, I just love, I just want to be there at the table, making the decisions, influencing around the organization. I’m like, well, that’s what you want to do. , you want to be a leader in an organization. Because by all means, you know, people who work as on demand talent in the gig economy influencing, they’re educated, but they’re not the decision makers.
They’re advisors and they’re consulting and they’re informing and they’re educating, but it’s a different seat at the table. So I think just weighing up what is most important. To you, what is it, the sort of work that you like to do? what does flexibility look like for you? If you’re someone who’s, you know, a four day work week would be great.
Or if I’ve got remote work three days a week, then that’s all the flexibility. So if that flexibility bucket can be ticked internally, I think from a financial standpoint, you know, working out what that level of risk looks like for you, what might your salary look like if you continue to work internally and what would it look like if you were to meet.
Either that as a financial target or another financial target, working for yourself. How many days a week, because the reality is, you know, you don’t have to be fully engaged five days a week for 52 weeks a year to have a successful practice. And there are lulls in the year, July, I’m sure you want, you know, July can be quite quiet and December, January can be quite quiet.
So, you know, designing your work and your finances around those kind of peaks and troughs. But yeah, finding where your passion is, I think is most important.
Renata: Yes, that’s a wonderful way to finish this conversation, Michelle. Thank you so much. I really love the platform that you’ve created. I think it solves a lot of problems for people that want to step in, but don’t want, you know, to lose the community feel and, you know, would love some help with the invoicing of clients.
For example, I thought that was so clever. So well done for developing such a well thought platform. And I’d love to keep in touch and, you know, we’ll refer some clients and hope that they take up. And if there’s anything that I can do to support you and work, then let me know. I’m here for you.
Michelle: Thank you so much. Thanks for a great chat.
